In message , at 15:38:12 on Tue, 8 Dec
2015, d remarked:

There was talk, earlier, of tourists. Non-English speakers will find a
machine less daunting than a grumpy Tfl employee.

Possibly. But they'll still take far longer to figure out how to use it than
just asking the grumpy sod behind the counter for a ticket in broken english.

The waiting time in the queue will be dramatically reduced at the busy
main stations, and given that the machine's instructions are available
in 17 languages there's no need for any kind of "broken English".
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 15:47:39 +0000
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2015-12-08 12:35:42 +0000, Roland Perry said:

The new Post Office has just two windows, plus a "parcels reception
desk". Normally they again have just two staff on duty. For whatever
reason the queues are now much shorter, although this may be a result
of them having institutionally dumped almost all the types of business
other than weighing and stamping letters and parcels.

Or because it is much more convenient for the majority of the
population to access Government services online rather than via the
post office. The future of the post office is in my view local shops
able to offer postal[1] services.

[1] That assumes a postal service even has a future. It doesn't seem
to do anything a courier can't, other than universal service, which
could be offered in a different way.

And presumably these courier services would install pillar boxes with once
or twice daily collections in almost every urban street in the country with
letters delivered for a few tens of pence? No, didn't think so.

--
Spud

In message , at 15:47:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2015, Neil Williams remarked:

The new Post Office has just two windows, plus a "parcels reception
desk". Normally they again have just two staff on duty. For whatever
reason the queues are now much shorter, although this may be a result
of them having institutionally dumped almost all the types of business
other than weighing and stamping letters and parcels.

Or because it is much more convenient for the majority of the
population to access Government services online rather than via the
post office. The future of the post office is in my view local shops
able to offer postal[1] services.

Almost all the ones round here are exactly that. Some sort of
convenience store with a couple of PO counters shoehorned in at the
back. The new one here is a "Costcutter".

[1] That assumes a postal service even has a future. It doesn't seem
to do anything a courier can't, other than universal service, which
could be offered in a different way.

Oddly enough there's only one of the various franchises of courier
drop-off in the town, so I use the Post Office Parcelforce facility for
that (despite otherwise preferring other parcel deliverers on balance),
as well as typically mailing things costing £1-£3, which are cheaper
than a courier wishes to deal with. Post Office also tends to much
cheaper for overseas things.

The thing I've used Post Offices for, other than mail, is getting an
updated photo Driving Licence and having them check passport
applications. If they weren't available to do those, someone else would
have to pick up those functions.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 16:00:37 on Tue, 8 Dec
2015, d remarked:

And presumably these courier services would install pillar boxes with once
or twice daily collections in almost every urban street in the country

They are much more sparse than that. On average perhaps one every ten
minutes walk. The one nearest me has only a single collection each day,
at about 8.30am!

with
letters delivered for a few tens of pence? No, didn't think so.

A first class stamp is 62p. I'm still working my way through a large
batch of books of stamps I bought when they were 46p. Partly that's
because I don't actually need the entry-level stamps very often. I use
the "large" and "signed-for" postage rates much more.
--
Roland Perry

On 08/12/2015 16:21, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 16:00:37 on Tue, 8 Dec
2015, d remarked:

And presumably these courier services would install pillar boxes
with once or twice daily collections in almost every urban street
the country

They are much more sparse than that. On average perhaps one every ten
minutes walk. The one nearest me has only a single collection each day,
at about 8.30am!

Five mins walk, perhaps, in an urban setting. From my front door, I've
got four that I can think of well within 5 mins walk.

Royal Mail changed the collection system very recently for most post
boxes - collections now occur as part of a postman or woman's delivery
round. Still evening collections for those boxes outside or part of Post
Offices themselves.

On 08/12/2015 15:47, Neil Williams wrote:

On 2015-12-08 12:35:42 +0000, Roland Perry said:
The new Post Office has just two windows, plus a "parcels reception
desk". Normally they again have just two staff on duty. For whatever
reason the queues are now much shorter, although this may be a result
of them having institutionally dumped almost all the types of business
other than weighing and stamping letters and parcels.

Or because it is much more convenient for the majority of the population
to access Government services online rather than via the post office.
The future of the post office is in my view local shops able to offer
postal[1] services.

The Post Offices I see are still pretty busy places.

In message , at 19:27:10 on Tue, 8 Dec 2015,
Mizter T remarked:

And presumably these courier services would install pillar boxes
with once or twice daily collections in almost every urban street
the country

They are much more sparse than that. On average perhaps one every ten
minutes walk. The one nearest me has only a single collection each day,
at about 8.30am!

Five mins walk, perhaps, in an urban setting. From my front door, I've
got four that I can think of well within 5 mins walk.

YMMV in an urban setting outside the M25.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:04:40 on Tue, 8 Dec
2015, d remarked:
There are some queues, but buying an Oyster from a machine is simplicity
itself. Even you could manage it.

Simpler than asking someone for an Oyster? Short of the machine being psychic
and knowing what you want as soon as you get there I doubt it.

There was talk, earlier, of tourists. Non-English speakers will find a
machine less daunting than a grumpy Tfl employee.

This is certainly true. And I also find it odd that certain people here
think the first time a tourist will ever have experienced anything so
new-fangled as a ticket machine is on arrival in London.

Most visitors to London are probably not from Outer Mongolia. And for the
rest, they probably have plenty of experience with ticket machines from
their own metro systems.

London is not a cradle of advanced wonders the rest of the world is yet to
fathom. It's a great city, but hardly presents unique challenges.

I'd worry more about a visitor from Burnley knowing how to operate the
space-age technology on the tube than someone from, say, Istanbul who'll be
used to more advanced systems.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 22:40:28 +0200
Clank wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:04:40 on Tue, 8 Dec
2015, d remarked:
There are some queues, but buying an Oyster from a machine is simplicity
itself. Even you could manage it.

Simpler than asking someone for an Oyster? Short of the machine being
psychic
and knowing what you want as soon as you get there I doubt it.

There was talk, earlier, of tourists. Non-English speakers will find a
machine less daunting than a grumpy Tfl employee.

This is certainly true. And I also find it odd that certain people here
think the first time a tourist will ever have experienced anything so
new-fangled as a ticket machine is on arrival in London.

And I find it odd that so many people on here have so little understanding
of human nature that they Just Dont Get that when its your first time in a
new city, are perhaps tired from travelling and are a bit confused about how
things work a lot of people would prefer talking to a person who can explain
what tickets they need , prices, zones etc, rather than wrestle with some
- IMO - poorly designed ticket machine interface.

I know people who use usenet are generally more technical than others and
wouldn't have a problem with most machines, but FFS at least try and put
yourselves in others situations occasionally.

--
Spud

On 09/12/2015 09:22, d wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 22:40:28 +0200
Clank wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:04:40 on Tue, 8 Dec
2015, d remarked:
There are some queues, but buying an Oyster from a machine is simplicity
itself. Even you could manage it.

Simpler than asking someone for an Oyster? Short of the machine being
psychic
and knowing what you want as soon as you get there I doubt it.

There was talk, earlier, of tourists. Non-English speakers will find a
machine less daunting than a grumpy Tfl employee.

This is certainly true. And I also find it odd that certain people here
think the first time a tourist will ever have experienced anything so
new-fangled as a ticket machine is on arrival in London.

And I find it odd that so many people on here have so little understanding
of human nature that they Just Dont Get that when its your first time in a
new city, are perhaps tired from travelling and are a bit confused about how
things work a lot of people would prefer talking to a person who can explain
what tickets they need , prices, zones etc, rather than wrestle with some
- IMO - poorly designed ticket machine interface.

I know people who use usenet are generally more technical than others and
wouldn't have a problem with most machines, but FFS at least try and put
yourselves in others situations occasionally.


And conversely why should we subsidise foreign visitors to these lands
when they do not do likewise? Particularly when there are plenty of
guidebooks available, in their language, that hopefully contain a useful
zonal map of the tube alongside details of what tickets are available.

Although I'd have thought the best advice these days would be to just
use a contactless card and it will get you close to the cheapest
possible fare if not exactly so.

At least the system is nowhere near as perverse as the Sofian tram
system, with the additional complication of notices in cyrillic and a
different fine structure for foreigners (higher by a factor of 10 or
used to be!)