"Aurora":
Much better, IMHO to use it for its original purpose. To wit as part
of a fast, limited stop pair quadrupling the TfL Northern Line.

Charles Ellson:
That wasn't the original purpose (note that Wonkypaedia fails to
supply a source) rather than a "maybe" use after the war...

Graeme Wall:
The original deep Northern Line tunnels were built along te Bank branch
IIRC, the ones around Clapham were built as shelters but with the idea
of linking them up to the earlier tunnels post war.

"Scott":
This was my understanding, that the various tunnels could be linked up
after the war was over to provide an express line. Had the full route
been intact, I suspect it would have been brought into use.

Yes, the *purpose* of building the deep tunnels was to provide air-raid
shelters. The *locations* were chosen so that they could be linked up,
if later warranted, for new express tube tracks following the Northern
and the Central Line.

From "Rails through the Clay" (2nd edition, pages 250 and 273):

# Another idea brought back from the 1936 visit to New York was
# that of building express tube lines parallel to the most congested
# sections. These new lines were proposed from Liverpool Street to
# Marble Arch on the Central Line (with stations at Bank and Oxford
# Circus) and between Archway (then Highgate) and Tottenham Court
# Road on the Northern Line (without intermediate stations). It was
# also proposed to provide a branch from Baker Street (Bakerloo)
# to Victoria with one intermediate station at Bond Street and a
# 'Camden Town' type junction at Baker Street.
#
# There would have been through-running connections with the existing
# lines at each end of the express sections, and convenient same-level
# interchange between the fast and slow lines at the common stations.
# On the Central line, the express stations and all those on the
# eastern extension would have held 10-car trains, avoiding the
# need to lengthen the existing Central line platforms for more than
# six cars.
...
# The bombings of 1940, and intelligence reports of more powerful
# bombs and more efficient delivery systems, forced a reappraisal
# of the deep-shelter policy. At the end of October the government
# decided to construct a system of deep shelters linked to existing
# tube stations. London Transport was consulted about the sites,
# and was required to build the tunnels at the public expense,
# with the understanding that it was to have the option of taking
# them over for railway use after the war. With the latter point
# in mind, sites were examined on routes of possible north-south
# and east-west express tube railways, as discussed in the previous
# chapter, but now comprising Bank-Holborn, Camden Town - Tottenham
# Court Road and Kennington-Balham.

The shelter tunnels are 16'6" in diameter, and thus would have become
running tunnels, not stations, if they had ever been linked up.
--
Mark Brader | "...all these superheroes really have the same super-power:
Toronto | they have the writer(s) on their side."
| --Mark Leeper

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 23:29:04 -0600, (Mark Brader) wrote:

"Aurora":
Much better, IMHO to use it for its original purpose. To wit as part
of a fast, limited stop pair quadrupling the TfL Northern Line.

Charles Ellson:
That wasn't the original purpose (note that Wonkypaedia fails to
supply a source) rather than a "maybe" use after the war...

Graeme Wall:
The original deep Northern Line tunnels were built along te Bank branch
IIRC, the ones around Clapham were built as shelters but with the idea
of linking them up to the earlier tunnels post war.

"Scott":
This was my understanding, that the various tunnels could be linked up
after the war was over to provide an express line. Had the full route
been intact, I suspect it would have been brought into use.

Yes, the *purpose* of building the deep tunnels was to provide air-raid
shelters. The *locations* were chosen so that they could be linked up,
if later warranted, for new express tube tracks following the Northern
and the Central Line.

From "Rails through the Clay" (2nd edition, pages 250 and 273):

# Another idea brought back from the 1936 visit to New York was
# that of building express tube lines parallel to the most congested
# sections. These new lines were proposed from Liverpool Street to
# Marble Arch on the Central Line (with stations at Bank and Oxford
# Circus) and between Archway (then Highgate) and Tottenham Court
# Road on the Northern Line (without intermediate stations). It was
# also proposed to provide a branch from Baker Street (Bakerloo)
# to Victoria with one intermediate station at Bond Street and a
# 'Camden Town' type junction at Baker Street.
#
# There would have been through-running connections with the existing
# lines at each end of the express sections, and convenient same-level
# interchange between the fast and slow lines at the common stations.
# On the Central line, the express stations and all those on the
# eastern extension would have held 10-car trains, avoiding the
# need to lengthen the existing Central line platforms for more than
# six cars.
...
# The bombings of 1940, and intelligence reports of more powerful
# bombs and more efficient delivery systems, forced a reappraisal
# of the deep-shelter policy. At the end of October the government
# decided to construct a system of deep shelters linked to existing
# tube stations. London Transport was consulted about the sites,
# and was required to build the tunnels at the public expense,
# with the understanding that it was to have the option of taking
# them over for railway use after the war. With the latter point
# in mind, sites were examined on routes of possible north-south
# and east-west express tube railways, as discussed in the previous
# chapter, but now comprising Bank-Holborn, Camden Town - Tottenham
# Court Road and Kennington-Balham.

The shelter tunnels are 16'6" in diameter, and thus would have become
running tunnels, not stations, if they had ever been linked up.

IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

IMHO This route could be the basis of a route much superior to
Crossrail two. The Northern Line is in sore need of relief. As is
Waterloo.

Consider a route using the Crossrail two but after St Pancras Euston
following the Express Northern Line route thru the west end to
Kennington and on to South Wimbledon. From there Raynes Park is a
straight shot. After interchange with the NR station Northern Line
Express could continue to Chessington and Epsom, thus relieving
Waterloo.

In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.
--
Roland Perry

On 2015\12\23 08:22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.

Although it's a little surprising that Camden Town would not have had an
express stop.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 23:55:15 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\12\23 08:22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.

Although it's a little surprising that Camden Town would not have had an
express stop.

What was the area like at the time?

--
jhk

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 23:55:15 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\12\23 08:22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.

Although it's a little surprising that Camden Town would not have had an
express stop.

AFIK there is no shelter @ Camden Town Station, implying that it was
not excluded as an express stop.

OTH Belsize Park does have a shelter. It is not had to envisage the
Express service calling at Hampstead and Camden Town, missing Belsize
Park and Chalk Farm.

On 2015\12\30 11:35, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 23:55:15 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\12\23 08:22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.

Although it's a little surprising that Camden Town would not have had an
express stop.

AFIK there is no shelter @ Camden Town Station, implying that it was
not excluded as an express stop.

Is this not one?

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:41:53 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\12\30 11:35, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 23:55:15 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\12\23 08:22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.

Although it's a little surprising that Camden Town would not have had an
express stop.

AFIK there is no shelter @ Camden Town Station, implying that it was
not excluded as an express stop.

Is this not one?



You are correct Basil. Having checked, it is my mistake. So, maybe
they planned to stop trains at Hampstead and then Euston. Camden Town
is a rather surprising omission. The area was well developed by
then.