On 2016\02\26 00:35, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\25 13:11, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today. For example Wimbledon.

There aren't any shared platforms at Wimbledon. Elizabeth Line trains will
share platforms with GWR trains.

Hackney Downs is an Overground-managed station that has Anglia trains in
the peak using the same platforms. There are Overground-coloured
roundels with the station name on all platforms. It's not a problem, any
more than Bakerloo Line trains serving stations with Silverlink signs
was a problem in the old days.

I think people are arguing at cross purposes.
Some people think we are arguing about whether there will be roundels.
Some people think we are arguing about whether the roundels will be purple.

IMO it is a given that there will be purple roundels all over everything
that Crossrail owns or manages, even if GWR or Anglia stop there as
well. We're actually arguing about where, if anywhere, will there be
purple roundels with CROSSRAIL on them and where, if anywhere, will
there be purple roundels with ELIZABETH LINE written on them. I see
little use for the Elizabeth Line roundels - after all, the tube lines
do not AFAIK have their own roundels. I wouldn't be surprised if
yesterday's photo shoot was the last time we will ever see the ELIZABETH
LINE roundel, although the name itself will be widely used, often with
the CROSSRAIL roundel next to it.

My understanding is that the Crossrail name will not be used for the
finished product; it was, in effect, a development code name. So all the
roundels will say Elizabeth Line or the station name if they have any text
at all (some will just be a solid purple). It's true that individual Tube
lines don't have their own roundels, but the Underground, Buses, DLR and
Overground do, and I think the Elizabeth Line will be the same.

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central line"
in your head.

And after CR2 opens, TCR would have "Elizabeth Line", "Charles line" and
"Underground", the last representing both the Central and the
Halfnorthern line, with the first two having different colours. Sorry,
but I'll believe it when I see it. The quality of service and trains on
the two Crossrail lines will be similar, so there is no need for them to
have their own branding until you get inside the station, and no need
for them to have their own roundels either. There is far more need for
the orbital Overground and the radial Overground to have their own
differently coloured roundels visible in the street (not that I am
necessarily advocating that).

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\26 00:35, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\25 13:11, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today. For example Wimbledon.

There aren't any shared platforms at Wimbledon. Elizabeth Line trains will
share platforms with GWR trains.

Hackney Downs is an Overground-managed station that has Anglia trains in
the peak using the same platforms. There are Overground-coloured
roundels with the station name on all platforms. It's not a problem, any
more than Bakerloo Line trains serving stations with Silverlink signs
was a problem in the old days.

I think people are arguing at cross purposes.
Some people think we are arguing about whether there will be roundels.
Some people think we are arguing about whether the roundels will be purple.

IMO it is a given that there will be purple roundels all over everything
that Crossrail owns or manages, even if GWR or Anglia stop there as
well. We're actually arguing about where, if anywhere, will there be
purple roundels with CROSSRAIL on them and where, if anywhere, will
there be purple roundels with ELIZABETH LINE written on them. I see
little use for the Elizabeth Line roundels - after all, the tube lines
do not AFAIK have their own roundels. I wouldn't be surprised if
yesterday's photo shoot was the last time we will ever see the ELIZABETH
LINE roundel, although the name itself will be widely used, often with
the CROSSRAIL roundel next to it.

My understanding is that the Crossrail name will not be used for the
finished product; it was, in effect, a development code name. So all the
roundels will say Elizabeth Line or the station name if they have any text
at all (some will just be a solid purple). It's true that individual Tube
lines don't have their own roundels, but the Underground, Buses, DLR and
Overground do, and I think the Elizabeth Line will be the same.

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central line"
in your head.

And after CR2 opens, TCR would have "Elizabeth Line", "Charles line" and
"Underground", the last representing both the Central and the
Halfnorthern line, with the first two having different colours. Sorry,
but I'll believe it when I see it. The quality of service and trains on
the two Crossrail lines will be similar, so there is no need for them to
have their own branding until you get inside the station, and no need
for them to have their own roundels either. There is far more need for
the orbital Overground and the radial Overground to have their own
differently coloured roundels visible in the street (not that I am
necessarily advocating that).

I'm not disagreeing with your scepticism, just saying what I think the
announcement means. Personally, I'd have rather kept the Crossrail name,
but it looks like Elizabeth Line is a direct replacement for it. Remember
that it will have several different services, so in that sense, it's a bit
like the Overground (or of course the Central line).

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:51:13 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today.

Marked in the style of the managing TOC/organisation IIRC thus e.g. LU
roundels on DC line stations that never see an Underground train.

For example Wimbledon.

South West Trains on that basis which seems to be confirmed by the
photographs in the NR information pages. I can't see anything
obviously "bar and circle" on platforms 1-4 (apart from the 4" or so
badges on other signs) but the images aren't ideally positioned to
show any Underground station name signs if they were in the usual
position.

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 04:00:47 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:51:13 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today.

Marked in the style of the managing TOC/organisation IIRC thus e.g. LU
roundels on DC line stations that never see an Underground train.

That might require re-checking for the stations north of Harrow and
Wealdstone (which I won't passing through any time in the near future)
which are managed by LO but ISTR some had roundels of questionable
colour. A quick Googling of images for Harrow and Wealdstone station
suggests that the platforms have no obvious "house style" at all but
this could be because the station is all/mostly grade II listed.

For example Wimbledon.

South West Trains on that basis which seems to be confirmed by the
photographs in the NR information pages. I can't see anything
obviously "bar and circle" on platforms 1-4 (apart from the 4" or so
badges on other signs) but the images aren't ideally positioned to
show any Underground station name signs if they were in the usual
position.

On 26/02/2016 00:35, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\25 13:11, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today. For example Wimbledon.

There aren't any shared platforms at Wimbledon. Elizabeth Line trains will
share platforms with GWR trains.

Hackney Downs is an Overground-managed station that has Anglia trains in
the peak using the same platforms. There are Overground-coloured
roundels with the station name on all platforms. It's not a problem, any
more than Bakerloo Line trains serving stations with Silverlink signs
was a problem in the old days.

I think people are arguing at cross purposes.
Some people think we are arguing about whether there will be roundels.
Some people think we are arguing about whether the roundels will be purple.

IMO it is a given that there will be purple roundels all over everything
that Crossrail owns or manages, even if GWR or Anglia stop there as
well. We're actually arguing about where, if anywhere, will there be
purple roundels with CROSSRAIL on them and where, if anywhere, will
there be purple roundels with ELIZABETH LINE written on them. I see
little use for the Elizabeth Line roundels - after all, the tube lines
do not AFAIK have their own roundels. I wouldn't be surprised if
yesterday's photo shoot was the last time we will ever see the ELIZABETH
LINE roundel, although the name itself will be widely used, often with
the CROSSRAIL roundel next to it.

My understanding is that the Crossrail name will not be used for the
finished product; it was, in effect, a development code name.

It is what it was called in the London Rail Plan in 1972.



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

* Rather than District Line.
--
Roland Perry

On 26/02/2016 08:16, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

The main facade has the indecisive arrow and a generic Underground roundel


* Rather than District Line.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

BR arrows and Underground.


* Rather than District Line.

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 01:03:21 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\02\26 00:35, Recliner wrote:

My understanding is that the Crossrail name will not be used for the
finished product; it was, in effect, a development code name. So all the
roundels will say Elizabeth Line or the station name if they have any text
at all (some will just be a solid purple). It's true that individual Tube
lines don't have their own roundels, but the Underground, Buses, DLR and
Overground do, and I think the Elizabeth Line will be the same.

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central line"
in your head.

And after CR2 opens, TCR would have "Elizabeth Line", "Charles line" and
"Underground", the last representing both the Central and the
Halfnorthern line, with the first two having different colours. Sorry,
but I'll believe it when I see it. The quality of service and trains on
the two Crossrail lines will be similar, so there is no need for them to
have their own branding until you get inside the station, and no need
for them to have their own roundels either. There is far more need for
the orbital Overground and the radial Overground to have their own
differently coloured roundels visible in the street (not that I am
necessarily advocating that).

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color. Red for
Underground, orange for Overground and purple for London's RER.

IMHO George VI would be an excellent name choice for the next
Crossrail. Charles is an unknown quantity as far as his reign goes.

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:17:57 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2016-02-26 09:04:46 +0000, e27002 aurora said:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color. Red for
Underground, orange for Overground and purple for London's RER.

But Overground, like Crossrail, *is* an S-Bahn, RER or whatever you
call it. To me, Crossrail should have used the orange roundel, not had
a new one.

The Overground WAS a local, largely, orbital network for Londoners.
That of course has gone to pot with the latest takeovers of the
suburban network.

Crossrails reach from London's core to the market towns and garden
cities in neighboring counties.