Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for
HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services
will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that
the need has faded.

With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would
be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there.

According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago
it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would
have been taken over by CrossRail.

The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was
for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone
has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction,
and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how
would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line? Why would it then
switch to the DC line?

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:18:16 -0800 (PST), ian batten
wrote:

On Thursday, 14 January 2016 12:54:33 UTC, e27002 wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:58:22 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:


On 03/01/2016 10:48, e27002 aurora wrote:
[...]
And, yes I am aware the trendy thing is to keep all ones music on a
hard drive. But, I like having the CDs.


You're a bit out of date... music is streamed from the cloud these days!

Possibly, Mizter T, but I do not like music in compressed formats. It
loses fidelity. I listen to .wav and .cdr formats.

You're presumably done a double-blind comparison of 44.1KHz 16 bit with
320kbps AAC?

No, so why not recommend it rather than take a less than convivial
tone?

No, I didn't think so.

wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:54:18 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:58:22 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:


On 03/01/2016 10:48, e27002 aurora wrote:
[...]
And, yes I am aware the trendy thing is to keep all ones music on a
hard drive. But, I like having the CDs.


You're a bit out of date... music is streamed from the cloud these days!

Possibly, Mizter T, but I do not like music in compressed formats. It
loses fidelity. I listen to .wav and .cdr formats.

It varies amongst people but it is an unfortunate fact of life that
although the format used may give better fidelity as people get older
their ears may not. It need not necessarily be as straight cut as a
blind man saying an HD telly has a better picture than a std one
therefore he needs the HD version but many people don't realise how
much detail their hearing is missing after around 40 to 50 years of
age even though they are a long way off needing a hearing aid.

Yes, very true. I always thought it ironic that the young can't afford top
class hi-fi systems, and those old enough to afford them can no longer hear
well enough to benefit.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:22:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for
HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services
will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that
the need has faded.

With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would
be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there.

According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago
it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would
have been taken over by CrossRail.

The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was
for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone
has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction,
and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how
would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line?

A separate pair of tracks coming up the west side of the WCML. IIRC
the displaced DC/Bakerloo terminating tracks were to be shoehorned
into the "wasteland" south of the station.

Why would it then switch to the DC line?

To provide an extra pair of tracks for CR/WCML. I suspect the author
had failed to look any further north when drawing on his/her fag
packet. Another consequence to achieve the plan would probably have
been clearing the entire site down to track level (as the walls
supporting the Central Square raft would have been partly in the way)
and extending westward of the Down DC to gain room for the extended
platforms.

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:22:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for
HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services
will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that
the need has faded.

With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would
be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there.

According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago
it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would
have been taken over by CrossRail.

The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was
for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone
has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction,
and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how
would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line?

A separate pair of tracks coming up the west side of the WCML. IIRC
the displaced DC/Bakerloo terminating tracks were to be shoehorned
into the "wasteland" south of the station.

Why would it then switch to the DC line?

To provide an extra pair of tracks for CR/WCML. I suspect the author
had failed to look any further north when drawing on his/her fag
packet. Another consequence to achieve the plan would probably have
been clearing the entire site down to track level (as the walls
supporting the Central Square raft would have been partly in the way)
and extending westward of the Down DC to gain room for the extended
platforms.

Ah, I don't recall that 'plan'. It's almost Bellsian in its bonkersness!

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:19:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:22:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for
HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services
will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that
the need has faded.

With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would
be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there.

According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago
it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would
have been taken over by CrossRail.

The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was
for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone
has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction,
and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how
would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line?

A separate pair of tracks coming up the west side of the WCML. IIRC
the displaced DC/Bakerloo terminating tracks were to be shoehorned
into the "wasteland" south of the station.

Why would it then switch to the DC line?

To provide an extra pair of tracks for CR/WCML. I suspect the author
had failed to look any further north when drawing on his/her fag
packet. Another consequence to achieve the plan would probably have
been clearing the entire site down to track level (as the walls
supporting the Central Square raft would have been partly in the way)
and extending westward of the Down DC to gain room for the extended
platforms.

Ah, I don't recall that 'plan'. It's almost Bellsian in its bonkersness!

Ah-hah! Found it :-
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...philip%201.pdf
[http://tinyurl.com/gpe9jlt]
It actually seems to be more than one cunning plan and still serving
the DC line to Watford rather than how I remembered it but still with
trains to/from London getting no further than Wembley.

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:19:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:22:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message
,
Anna Noyd-Dryver writes

Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point.

We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C
services now.


Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only
6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now.

Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling
points haven't changed much.

Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains
about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total.

HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was
focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which
both now provide H&C trains for service.

So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it
is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators.

But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington.

Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the
other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith?

At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring.
That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some
Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would
be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel.

The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for
HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services
will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that
the need has faded.

With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would
be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there.

According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago
it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would
have been taken over by CrossRail.

The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was
for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone
has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction,
and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how
would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line?

A separate pair of tracks coming up the west side of the WCML. IIRC
the displaced DC/Bakerloo terminating tracks were to be shoehorned
into the "wasteland" south of the station.

Why would it then switch to the DC line?

To provide an extra pair of tracks for CR/WCML. I suspect the author
had failed to look any further north when drawing on his/her fag
packet. Another consequence to achieve the plan would probably have
been clearing the entire site down to track level (as the walls
supporting the Central Square raft would have been partly in the way)
and extending westward of the Down DC to gain room for the extended
platforms.

Ah, I don't recall that 'plan'. It's almost Bellsian in its bonkersness!

Ah-hah! Found it :-
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...philip%201.pdf
[http://tinyurl.com/gpe9jlt]
It actually seems to be more than one cunning plan and still serving
the DC line to Watford rather than how I remembered it but still with
trains to/from London getting no further than Wembley.


No wonder nothing has been heard of it since!

On 13.01.16 8:55, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 12/01/2016 20:51, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

In message , Mizter T
writes
Do you like the S-stock - from a driver's POV that is?

I love them. Comfortable, good driving position, cab air-com (although
it's a bit noisy) and hi-tech controls (which always goes down well with
me!)

It's almost disappointing when a D stock turns up as they are getting
dated and not much loved by the depots these days.

That's great to hear! I like them from a passenger's perspective too
- lots of space, big wide doors, smooth ride.

I agree except for the lack of transverse seats on the S7s. One advantage of
the S8s which I last used.

Yes, I always try and grabs transverse seat on an S8, even a rear facing
one.

Are there any external differences at this point between an S7 and S8?
Or does one need to always look at the seating arrangement/

Earlier, one could tell the difference by the fact that the third number
on an S7 railcar's number was always 3. Now however, that no longer
appears to be the case.

On 13.01.16 16:02, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:53:50 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:08:43 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
transfer to Vivarail. I suspect you'd be at the front of the queue of the
complainers if the D stock was still running around unrefurbished after 35
years of service.

As long as a train is reliable I don't really care what the interior decor
is
like especially if a refurb means yet more strain on the budget and hence
potential ticket price rises.

Were you under the impression that the refurbishment was just a paint job??
Wow!

See these pages to see what was actually done. Most of it was to improve
functionality and reliability, as well as some safety features. The paint
job was also needed for trains that were looking shabby and graffiti
stained after 25 years of service, but it was a small part of the project.
http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...rbishment.html

I don't see anything (in this admittedly messy site) about the motors or
traction control equipment being refurbished. So some wiring was redone and
an "information system" was put in. Nothing that was vital for a train about
to be ditched less than 10 years later.

Here's your list:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lond...#Refurbishment

The bogies were also replaced, but I think that was a separate project.

I don't think they knew the replacement plans when the refurbishment plans
were agreed.

I miss the D78s' wood floors.

wrote:
On 13.01.16 16:02, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:53:50 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:08:43 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
transfer to Vivarail. I suspect you'd be at the front of the queue of the
complainers if the D stock was still running around unrefurbished after 35
years of service.

As long as a train is reliable I don't really care what the interior decor
is
like especially if a refurb means yet more strain on the budget and hence
potential ticket price rises.

Were you under the impression that the refurbishment was just a paint job??
Wow!

See these pages to see what was actually done. Most of it was to improve
functionality and reliability, as well as some safety features. The paint
job was also needed for trains that were looking shabby and graffiti
stained after 25 years of service, but it was a small part of the project.
http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...rbishment.html

I don't see anything (in this admittedly messy site) about the motors or
traction control equipment being refurbished. So some wiring was redone and
an "information system" was put in. Nothing that was vital for a train about
to be ditched less than 10 years later.

Here's your list:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lond...#Refurbishment

The bogies were also replaced, but I think that was a separate project.

I don't think they knew the replacement plans when the refurbishment plans
were agreed.

I miss the D78s' wood floors.

Presumably no longer allowed for fire safety reasons? All the old stock
had it, but I assume it's gone for good now.