In message , at 18:16:49 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:
A salary dispute is not a minor issue. If you need more money you might
still be reasonably certain of being able to go elsewhere almost
immediately. Tube drivers (and enormous numbers of people in a wide
variety of jobs) not so much. And since the current tendency is for the
value of wages to be eroded, why wouldn't they need more money?

I agree about the lack of mobility of the rump of employees who aren't
C++ programmers, but most people agree that train drivers are overpaid
for their four day week.
--
Roland Perry

On 2016-01-19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:16:49 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:
A salary dispute is not a minor issue. If you need more money you might
still be reasonably certain of being able to go elsewhere almost
immediately. Tube drivers (and enormous numbers of people in a wide
variety of jobs) not so much. And since the current tendency is for the
value of wages to be eroded, why wouldn't they need more money?

I agree about the lack of mobility of the rump of employees who aren't
C++ programmers, but most people agree that train drivers are overpaid
for their four day week.

Overpaid does not matter. Not only expenditure but committed expenditure
tend to increase with increasing income (for everybody). The only way
to reduce overpayment is with a long-term plan made up of very small
and carefully organised steps. Even then it might not work. In any case,
overpaid is a matter of opinion. And anyone who has that opinion should
spend a few full shifts in the cab.

Eric
--
ms fnd in a lbry

Eric wrote:
On 2016-01-19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:16:49 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:
A salary dispute is not a minor issue. If you need more money you might
still be reasonably certain of being able to go elsewhere almost
immediately. Tube drivers (and enormous numbers of people in a wide
variety of jobs) not so much. And since the current tendency is for the
value of wages to be eroded, why wouldn't they need more money?

I agree about the lack of mobility of the rump of employees who aren't
C++ programmers, but most people agree that train drivers are overpaid
for their four day week.

Overpaid does not matter. Not only expenditure but committed expenditure
tend to increase with increasing income (for everybody). The only way
to reduce overpayment is with a long-term plan made up of very small
and carefully organised steps. Even then it might not work. In any case,
overpaid is a matter of opinion. And anyone who has that opinion should
spend a few full shifts in the cab.

I'm curious about why recruitment to LU train operator posts is limited to
existing staff? If the job is so difficult and hard to fill, why not open
recruitment to anyone who's interested?

In message , at 22:10:25 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:

[Train drivers]

overpaid is a matter of opinion. And anyone who has that opinion should
spend a few full shifts in the cab.

You could also say that about nurses in A&E and constables on the beat.
Both of whom earn about half that of a train driver.
--
Roland Perry

On 2016-01-20, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:10:25 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:

[Train drivers]

overpaid is a matter of opinion. And anyone who has that opinion should
spend a few full shifts in the cab.

You could also say that about nurses in A&E and constables on the beat.
Both of whom earn about half that of a train driver.

Of course you could. OK then, overpaid and underpaid are both a matter
of opinion, and in many cases that opinion could be modified by spending
significant time observing the job concerned.

Eric
--
ms fnd in a lbry

In message , at 16:46:56 on Wed, 20
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:
[Train drivers]

overpaid is a matter of opinion. And anyone who has that opinion should
spend a few full shifts in the cab.

You could also say that about nurses in A&E and constables on the beat.
Both of whom earn about half that of a train driver.

Of course you could. OK then, overpaid and underpaid are both a matter
of opinion, and in many cases that opinion could be modified by spending
significant time observing the job concerned.

I also observe the existence of closed shops, and the effect that has on
wages.
--
Roland Perry

Eric wrote:
On 2016-01-20, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:10:25 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:

[Train drivers]

overpaid is a matter of opinion. And anyone who has that opinion should
spend a few full shifts in the cab.

You could also say that about nurses in A&E and constables on the beat.
Both of whom earn about half that of a train driver.

Of course you could. OK then, overpaid and underpaid are both a matter
of opinion, and in many cases that opinion could be modified by spending
significant time observing the job concerned.

Even better, open up recruitment to anyone who wants to apply, not just
existing staff. That way the market can decide whether the job is over or
underpaid, so we won't need to rely on opinion.

How many weeks training are needed to become an LU driver?

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Eric wrote:
On 2016-01-20, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:10:25 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:

[Train drivers]

overpaid is a matter of opinion. And anyone who has that opinion should
spend a few full shifts in the cab.

You could also say that about nurses in A&E and constables on the beat.
Both of whom earn about half that of a train driver.

Of course you could. OK then, overpaid and underpaid are both a matter
of opinion, and in many cases that opinion could be modified by spending
significant time observing the job concerned.

Even better, open up recruitment to anyone who wants to apply, not just
existing staff. That way the market can decide whether the job is over or
underpaid, so we won't need to rely on opinion.

How many weeks training are needed to become an LU driver?


Dunno about Lt, but quote from SWT:

"Our train driver training is extremely comprehensive and strict, and lasts
for up to 18 months"

tim

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:14:01 -0000
"tim....." wrote:
"Our train driver training is extremely comprehensive and strict, and lasts
for up to 18 months"

I suspect most of that is route learning. Learning to drive the train and
troubleshoot minor issues probably takes a week at most. I learnt to drive
an HGV and do all the checks in 4 days.

--
Spud

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 16:46:56 +0100
Eric wrote:
On 2016-01-20, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:10:25 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:

[Train drivers]

overpaid is a matter of opinion. And anyone who has that opinion should
spend a few full shifts in the cab.

You could also say that about nurses in A&E and constables on the beat.
Both of whom earn about half that of a train driver.

Of course you could. OK then, overpaid and underpaid are both a matter
of opinion, and in many cases that opinion could be modified by spending
significant time observing the job concerned.

So other than getting up for early shifts occasionally (which many other
jobs require), fill us in on what is so taxing about the job of a tube driver
that justifies them being paid twice as much as a nurse or a bus driver or a
police constable. Obviously theres some incredibly intellectually or physically
demanding part of the job that we're just not aware of so please tell us what
it is.

--
Spud