Its easy for the revenue guys little handheld machine to check a valid
oyster card or not since the data is held on the card. But how do they deal with
contactless bank cards? The card itself will have no knowledge of the journey
and I doubt these devices have a wifi connection to TfL HQ to check if the
bank account has any money in it and whether the card has been touched in etc
so how does it work? Or not?

--
Spud

In message , at 09:39:39 on Thu, 4 Feb
2016, d remarked:
Its easy for the revenue guys little handheld machine to check a valid
oyster card or not since the data is held on the card. But how do they deal with
contactless bank cards? The card itself will have no knowledge of the journey
and I doubt these devices have a wifi connection to TfL HQ to check if the
bank account has any money in it and whether the card has been touched in etc
so how does it work? Or not?

Simply by the T&C of using a contactless card on TfL allows them charge
the card later (without any further seeking of permission) if it emerges
that the fare wasn't paid.

As for "burner cards" (I've got two of them) that's just a cost of doing
business. Whether they'd chase an offender for one lost fare is
debateable, although they might well prosecute a sample repeat offender
and make sure it's in the newspaper "to encourage the others".
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 10:23:23 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:39:39 on Thu, 4 Feb
2016, d remarked:
Its easy for the revenue guys little handheld machine to check a valid
oyster card or not since the data is held on the card. But how do they deal
with
contactless bank cards? The card itself will have no knowledge of the journey
and I doubt these devices have a wifi connection to TfL HQ to check if the
bank account has any money in it and whether the card has been touched in etc
so how does it work? Or not?

Simply by the T&C of using a contactless card on TfL allows them charge
the card later (without any further seeking of permission) if it emerges
that the fare wasn't paid.

So the hand held reader just records the card number and a check is done
later? Makes sense.

As for "burner cards" (I've got two of them) that's just a cost of doing

Burner cards?

business. Whether they'd chase an offender for one lost fare is
debateable, although they might well prosecute a sample repeat offender
and make sure it's in the newspaper "to encourage the others".

They'd have to trace the card owner through the bank first. I very much doubt
the bank would oblidge them without a warrant and if its a foreign bank they
can forget it.

--
Spud

The RID, the new Revenue Inspection Device, checks only that the contactless card has been used to enter the system. It says PASSED or FAILED and gives a serial number unrelated to the card number. No details of the card are kept in the RID.

In message , at 11:01:00 on Thu, 4 Feb
2016, d remarked:

As for "burner cards" (I've got two of them) that's just a cost of doing

Burner cards?

Prepay cards - I've got two and one has zero on it the other about a
tenner.

business. Whether they'd chase an offender for one lost fare is
debateable, although they might well prosecute a sample repeat offender
and make sure it's in the newspaper "to encourage the others".

They'd have to trace the card owner through the bank first. I very much doubt
the bank would oblidge them without a warrant and if its a foreign bank they
can forget it.

Given that the police and the banks run a joint card-fraud operation, I
suspect that it wouldn't be as hard as you think (and there are special
rules which in effect mean that fraud investigations aren't covered by
data protection nondisclosure).

But the cost of such an investigation would be prohibitive if they
weren't trying to make an example of someone.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 03:58:29 -0800 (PST)
Offramp wrote:
The RID, the new Revenue Inspection Device, checks only that the contactless
card has been used to enter the system. It says PASSED or FAILED and gives a

But how does it know? Does it have a 3G or wifi link to head office? This
information certainly won't be stored on the bank card.

--
Spud

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 11:59:13 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:01:00 on Thu, 4 Feb
2016, d remarked:

As for "burner cards" (I've got two of them) that's just a cost of doing

Burner cards?

Prepay cards - I've got two and one has zero on it the other about a
tenner.

Might get one of them. They issued by your bank or can you just but them
somewhere?

They'd have to trace the card owner through the bank first. I very much doubt
the bank would oblidge them without a warrant and if its a foreign bank they
can forget it.

Given that the police and the banks run a joint card-fraud operation, I
suspect that it wouldn't be as hard as you think (and there are special

Ah, but I doubt NOT using your card when you should have counts as card fraud
as far as the banks are concerned.

--
Spud

In message , at 12:07:13 on Thu, 4 Feb
2016, d remarked:

As for "burner cards" (I've got two of them) that's just a cost of doing

Burner cards?

Prepay cards - I've got two and one has zero on it the other about a
tenner.

Might get one of them. They issued by your bank or can you just but them
somewhere?

It's hard to find contactless ones, but I got an "Orange" card (yes, the
mobile phone company) but they recently threw in the towel[1] and the
business has been rebranded: http://www.myoptimumcard.co.uk/

They'd have to trace the card owner through the bank first. I very much doubt
the bank would oblidge them without a warrant and if its a foreign bank they
can forget it.

Given that the police and the banks run a joint card-fraud operation, I
suspect that it wouldn't be as hard as you think (and there are special

Ah, but I doubt NOT using your card when you should have counts as card fraud
as far as the banks are concerned.

No, but doing a runner after failing to have the funds loaded, when they
later try to charge the card, might be.

[1] As they also did with their Film-Wednesdays incentive.
--
Roland Perry

d wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 03:58:29 -0800 (PST)
Offramp wrote:
The RID, the new Revenue Inspection Device, checks only that the
contactless card has been used to enter the system. It says PASSED
or FAILED and gives a

But how does it know? Does it have a 3G or wifi link to head office?
This information certainly won't be stored on the bank card.

AIUI there's an overnight reconciliation. The revenue inspector records
the card. Back office checks overnight that that card was used to tap
in. If not then they take a maximum Oyster fare from the card.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

Robin wrote:
d wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 03:58:29 -0800 (PST)
Offramp wrote:
The RID, the new Revenue Inspection Device, checks only that the
contactless card has been used to enter the system. It says PASSED
or FAILED and gives a

But how does it know? Does it have a 3G or wifi link to head office?
This information certainly won't be stored on the bank card.

AIUI there's an overnight reconciliation. The revenue inspector
records the card. Back office checks overnight that that card was
used to tap in. If not then they take a maximum Oyster fare from the
card.

Sorry - just noticed that Offramp referred to a *new* RID. What I said
dates from 2014 so is probably so out of date - and wrong.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid