Sorry for the length of this post, but the situation is rather complicated.

I have had an Oyster card since soon after they were introduced. During my last four years at work I had an annual Bus Pass, paid for with a loan from my employer, and kept a small amount of pre-pay on the card for occasional non-bus journeys. I am now semi-retired, have a part time job and do not travel every day, and so changed to use only pre-pay. Problem with this is that I would forget to top up, cannot pay cash on a bus, and there is not a convenient place to top up near my bus stop. Other than that, I had almost no problems with Oyster.

I have two contactless payment cards, both issued by Barclays, one debit and the other credit. When they started being accepted I tried using these, but there were two problems:

They are awkward to use. I have to remove the card from my wallet, and then put it back which is difficult to do if I have my hands full, as I often do. On a few occasions I have touched out at a station with the 'wrong' card, in with Oyster and out with credit card for example.

I would rather use the debit card, but it seldom works on TfL readers, on buses or at stations. The credit card works most of the time. This only applies with TfL readers, both cards work, and usually read first time contactlessly in shops etc.

Both of my contactless cards have expired and been replaced some time ago, and the same problem applies with the new debit card. These two points seem to suggest that there is nothing physically wrong with the card, and the fact that the credit card usually reads suggests that there is nothing wrong with the readers, except when they are displaying a red light.

I worked in I.T. for 25 years, but know nothing of how these systems work, and how the payments are processed. Can anybody think of any possible reason why a particular card would seldom read on TfL readers, but nearly always read elsewhere? It doesn't seem to make any sense.

On Wednesday morning I became aware that Barclays have finally started supporting Apple Pay. Since I have an iPhone I set up both cards for Apple Pay.. For both cards I received a code number from Barclays, and when I entered this then received a message that each card was ready for Apple Pay.

Later that day I tried using Apple Pay on trains and buses. I couldn't get the debit card to work at all. The credit card worked most of the time, but often took several attempts. This was my use that day:

Coulsdon Town - London Bridge National Rail
London Bridge - Stratford Jubilee Line
Stratford - Hampstead Heath Overground
Hampstead Heath - Victoria Bus route 24
Victoria - Vauxhall Bus route 2
Vauxhall - Norwood Garage Bus route 2
Norwood Garage - Croydon Bus route 468
Croydon - Coulsdon Bus route 60 or 405, I can't remember which.

The Overground section was problematical. The gate at Stratford let me in, but I couldn't get out at Hampstead Heath. Before touching out the iPhone showed the previous transaction as being at a time which would match my entry at Stratford, and after touching out at Hampstead Heath as being 'Just now', so the gate seems to have read the card, the card wasn't rejected, but the gate wouldn't open. I managed to attract the attention of a member of staff, who told me to try again; the card was then rejected each time, presumably because the system thought that I had already exited the station. He said that he didn't know much about Apple Pay; he could let me out, but the system might charge me a maximum fare. The virtual 'card' worked on each of the buses, usually after several attempts. More than once it was at first rejected, but when I removed it from the reader was then accepted, with a green light, without presenting it again, as if there was a long delay in reading it.

In total I was charged £14.30, which does seem too much. All of the rail journeys were off-peak.

On Thursday I made four Journeys, all by bus. I first tried the debit card on Apple Pay, and as usual, it was rejected. On one of the Buses the reader wasn't working, and the driver waved me on. On two of them I used Apple Pay with the credit card. On the last bus Apple Pay wouldn't work at all, so I had to use the actual card. The iPhone shows a total of £3 for that day, which seems correct for two journeys paid for with Apple Pay.

On Friday Apple Pay wouldn't work on a bus using either card. I haven't attempted it again since.

I have tried using Apple Pay in shops, with both cards. While I have only used them a couple of times I had no problems reading in either M+S Simply Food, or the Co-Op.

Has anybody else tried to use Apple Pay with Barclays cards? Have you had any similar problems. Does anybody else know why Barclays have only started supporting Apple Pay when most other banks seem to have supporting it for months?

Who should I contact about this, TfL? Barclays? Apple? I would prefer not to contact them by telephone, my hearing is not very good now, and I find it quite difficult to use the 'phone, especially for something long and complicated like this; it would be much simpler to do it in writing, and just copy and paste from this message.

There's a reason that I haven't tried topping up the Oyster online, but I don't want to make this message any longer!

Thanks for any advice anybody can give.

wrote:



I have two contactless payment cards, both issued by Barclays, one debit
and the other credit. When they started being accepted I tried using
these, but there were two problems:

They are awkward to use. I have to remove the card from my wallet, and
then put it back which is difficult to do if I have my hands full, as I
often do. On a few occasions I have touched out at a station with the
'wrong' card, in with Oyster and out with credit card for example.

I would rather use the debit card, but it seldom works on TfL readers, on
buses or at stations. The credit card works most of the time. This only
applies with TfL readers, both cards work, and usually read first time
contactlessly in shops etc.

Both of my contactless cards have expired and been replaced some time ago,
and the same problem applies with the new debit card. These two points
seem to suggest that there is nothing physically wrong with the card, and
the fact that the credit card usually reads suggests that there is nothing
wrong with the readers, except when they are displaying a red light.

I worked in I.T. for 25 years, but know nothing of how these systems work,
and how the payments are processed. Can anybody think of any possible
reason why a particular card would seldom read on TfL readers, but nearly
always read elsewhere? It doesn't seem to make any sense.

On Wednesday morning I became aware that Barclays have finally started
supporting Apple Pay. Since I have an iPhone I set up both cards for
Apple Pay. For both cards I received a code number from Barclays, and
when I entered this then received a message that each card was ready for
Apple Pay.

On Thursday I made four Journeys, all by bus. I first tried the debit
card on Apple Pay, and as usual, it was rejected. On one of the Buses the
reader wasn't working, and the driver waved me on. On two of them I used
Apple Pay with the credit card. On the last bus Apple Pay wouldn't work
at all, so I had to use the actual card. The iPhone shows a total of £3
for that day, which seems correct for two journeys paid for with Apple
Pay.

On Friday Apple Pay wouldn't work on a bus using either card. I haven't
attempted it again since.

I have tried using Apple Pay in shops, with both cards. While I have only
used them a couple of times I had no problems reading in either M+S Simply
Food, or the Co-Op.

Has anybody else tried to use Apple Pay with Barclays cards? Have you had
any similar problems. Does anybody else know why Barclays have only
started supporting Apple Pay when most other banks seem to have supporting
it for months?

Who should I contact about this, TfL? Barclays? Apple? I would prefer not
to contact them by telephone, my hearing is not very good now, and I find
it quite difficult to use the 'phone, especially for something long and
complicated like this; it would be much simpler to do it in writing, and
just copy and paste from this message.

There's a reason that I haven't tried topping up the Oyster online, but I
don't want to make this message any longer!

Thanks for any advice anybody can give.

I have similar issues it works well in some places e.g. M&S but fails
evey time at others which display the NFC pay sign e.g. Morrisons. Also
most places don't seem to accept it


Itb has some way to go to be useful (When it works it is much quicker
and easier than chip and pimn credit card)


--
Mark

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

If I was in your shoes I'd just set up auto top up on Oyster and use
that. That deals with your issues around lack of a convenient "top up"
location or you forgetting to top up.

How does that work if only using buses? Any online top ups I've ever made
had to be "collected" at a tube station gateline.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message of Mon, 11
Apr 2016 18:51:44 in uk.transport.london,
writes
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

If I was in your shoes I'd just set up auto top up on Oyster and use
that. That deals with your issues around lack of a convenient "top up"
location or you forgetting to top up.

How does that work if only using buses? Any online top ups I've ever made
had to be "collected" at a tube station gateline.


The OP reported making some Underground journeys.
I use an Oyster card with Auto Topup; I reject contactless cards to
avoid card clash.
I just Googled oyster auto top up.
I found:
1. Set up your Auto top-up online
2. Activate by making a journey at a Tube, DLR or Overground station or
tram stop.
3. Your Oyster card is topped up every time your pay as you go balance
falls below £10 and you make a journey,

2) might be problematic; 3) is not.

I've just checked the following works with the CSC.
On the web site:
1) Set up an account;
2) Buy an Oyster Card with Auto Topup enabled.

Wait some days - typically less than a week for snailmail card delivery.

The only issues I foresee concern refunds. While they are usually picked
up at stations and tram stops, they can be paid to a bank account. That
would deal with a redundant card and overcharging. I've never been
overcharged on a bus.
I hope the OP ) will report his/her experience.

--
Walter Briscoe

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:53:32PM -0700, wrote:

I have had an Oyster card since soon after they were introduced. During my=
last four years at work I had an annual Bus Pass, paid for with a loan fro=
m my employer, and kept a small amount of pre-pay on the card for occasiona=
l non-bus journeys. I am now semi-retired, have a part time job and do not=
travel every day, and so changed to use only pre-pay. Problem with this i=
s that I would forget to top up, cannot pay cash on a bus, and there is not=
a convenient place to top up near my bus stop.

Sounds like you need auto-topup.

In total I was charged =A314.30, which does seem too much. All of the rail=
journeys were off-peak.

This is why you should check your journey history regularly if you use
pay-as-you-go. It frequently makes mistakes. I do so monthly, and most
months I've been over-charged at least twice.

There's a reason that I haven't tried topping up the Oyster online, but I d=
on't want to make this message any longer!

Well it would certainly seem to be the sensible thing to do, so maybe
you need to tell us how that didn't work as well and maybe someone will
be able to help you.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

23.5 degrees of axial tilt is the reason for the season

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 06:51:44PM -0500, wrote:
(Paul Corfield) wrote:
If I was in your shoes I'd just set up auto top up on Oyster and use
that. That deals with your issues around lack of a convenient "top up"
location or you forgetting to top up.
How does that work if only using buses? Any online top ups I've ever made
had to be "collected" at a tube station gateline.

I believe that you still need to visit a tube station to turn auto-topup
on, but once it's turned on auto-topup definitely works on buses. You
still need to visit a station though - any station, not just a tube
station - to pick up PAYG refunds for the inevitable overcharging if you
bother to claim them.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

You are so cynical. And by "cynical", of course, I mean "correct".
-- Kurt Starsinic

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:44:32 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
This is why you should check your journey history regularly if you use
pay-as-you-go. It frequently makes mistakes. I do so monthly, and most
months I've been over-charged at least twice.

I don't know why you are so unlucky. I've been using contactless since
it was in the trial phase and I'm yet to have a mistake.

On 2016-04-11 22:15:57 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

From my limited observations there are now quite severe problems on
buses. They struggle to read any card first time with people having to
retouch their cards so that the reader has a chance of determining
what type of card it is communicating with and then deciding the
transaction that has to be undertaken. I think it is worst for those
using phone based technology but that's just based on reading other
people's experiences.

I don't know about Apple Pay, but I have not had problems using a
contactless credit card on TfL services. I think one of the problems
may be that they do take longer to process than Oyster cards - you have
to hold it there until you get the beep - and it's easy to pull away
too quickly.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 18:51:44 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

If I was in your shoes I'd just set up auto top up on Oyster and use
that. That deals with your issues around lack of a convenient "top up"
location or you forgetting to top up.

How does that work if only using buses? Any online top ups I've ever made
had to be "collected" at a tube station gateline.

As noted, the OP did make such a journey, and the product can also be
collected at any National Rail gateline in London. It's worth doing
once, IMO, and if Mr OP doesn't like that, he can buy a card with auto
top-up already enabled online (without knowing the reason why that's
apparently impossible I have to recommend it as the way to go!). In
the most goat-herding case, an unmade rail journey could probably be
backed-out by the call centre, but I can understand completely why he
would prefer not to do that.

I can have "Android pay" or whatever soon, so I might try that on the
bus to satisfy my inner geek. I don't remember seeing people using
mobiles much, but as Neil mentions contactless card payments do seem
to take a bit longer, in fact it seems that standard Oyster takes a
*little* longer now.

It would be nice to have all these options when I travel outside
London!

Richard.

On 12/04/2016 12:49, David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 06:51:44PM -0500, wrote:
(Paul Corfield) wrote:
If I was in your shoes I'd just set up auto top up on Oyster and use
that. That deals with your issues around lack of a convenient "top up"
location or you forgetting to top up.
How does that work if only using buses? Any online top ups I've ever made
had to be "collected" at a tube station gateline.

I believe that you still need to visit a tube station to turn auto-topup
on, but once it's turned on auto-topup definitely works on buses. You
still need to visit a station though - any station, not just a tube
station - to pick up PAYG refunds for the inevitable overcharging if you
bother to claim them.


My Oyster Card is registered, I have auto top up, if I ever have had a
refund it tops up my oyster card.

The system also gets to know your regular journeys and will auto refund
if something unusual happens.

Getting a refund by phone takes less than five minutes, I have never had
a problem.

On one occasion I had a refund after I made a call, then the system did
an auto refund.

I have only ever been overcharged because of my mistakes or because a
train has been cancelled after I touched in and I had to use bus instead
of train.

The refund can be collected within 14 days at a train station, once when
I did not use a train (over Christmas) within the 14 days I received an
e-mail asking if I wanted the time extended.

I also get a spreadsheet showing my Oyster journeys for a week emailed
to me.

The only problem I have (and it's not that bad) is I have to keep my
Oyster & my Freedom Card separate.

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