On 29/04/2016 10:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:18 on Fri, 29 Apr
2016, Someone Somewhere remarked:
Latest annual station usage stats:

T123 7.49m
T5 3.90m
T4 2.35m

Is that it? Any ideas about the Hex and Connect?

If only there was a way to find things like that out. Hold on, I'll see
if Tim Berners Lee has any ideas.

Page was, and continues to be, broken right now!

Given the number of passengers through Heathrow each year, let alone
staff, those numbers seem terribly low.

HEx is 5.84m a year and Connect a lowly 0.4m .

There is expected to be a sizeable shift from the Piccadilly Line to
Crossrail when it opens.

The airport had 73m passengers in 2014, but 26m were transfers, so 47m
landside. T5 is by far the busiest, with twice as many as the next
busiest (T3).

Overall, 40% are reported to use public transport, which sounds about
right - adding up the figures above actually gives 42%, but there's also
bus and coaches, offset from that some of the passengers are staff (but
with unsocial hours, over 17,500 free staff car parking spaces on site
and a vigorous car-sharing policy, their use of public transport is
naturally going to be low).

Plus I guess some number of people seeing off or collecting people which
probably makes up the difference.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:18 on Fri, 29 Apr
2016, Someone Somewhere remarked:
Latest annual station usage stats:

T123 7.49m
T5 3.90m
T4 2.35m

Is that it? Any ideas about the Hex and Connect?

If only there was a way to find things like that out. Hold on, I'll see
if Tim Berners Lee has any ideas.

Given the number of passengers through Heathrow each year, let alone
staff, those numbers seem terribly low.

HEx is 5.84m a year and Connect a lowly 0.4m .

There is expected to be a sizeable shift from the Piccadilly Line to
Crossrail when it opens.

Yes, that sounds likely, though it may be affected by the relative fare
levels (I've, if Crossrail is a lot more expensive than the Tube).


The airport had 73m passengers in 2014, but 26m were transfers, so 47m
landside. T5 is by far the busiest, with twice as many as the next
busiest (T3).

T2 is probably the second busiest now. T4 is now very quiet as some
airlines have moved from it to T2.


Overall, 40% are reported to use public transport, which sounds about
right - adding up the figures above actually gives 42%, but there's also
bus and coaches, offset from that some of the passengers are staff (but
with unsocial hours, over 17,500 free staff car parking spaces on site
and a vigorous car-sharing policy, their use of public transport is
naturally going to be low).

Many staff may also use Hatton Cross, whereas I assume few passengers do.

In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

On 29/04/2016 10:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:18 on Fri, 29 Apr
2016, Someone Somewhere remarked:
Latest annual station usage stats:

T123 7.49m
T5 3.90m
T4 2.35m

Is that it? Any ideas about the Hex and Connect?

If only there was a way to find things like that out. Hold on, I'll see
if Tim Berners Lee has any ideas.

Page was, and continues to be, broken right now!

Given the number of passengers through Heathrow each year, let alone
staff, those numbers seem terribly low.

HEx is 5.84m a year and Connect a lowly 0.4m .

There is expected to be a sizeable shift from the Piccadilly Line to
Crossrail when it opens.

The airport had 73m passengers in 2014, but 26m were transfers, so 47m
landside. T5 is by far the busiest, with twice as many as the next
busiest (T3).

Overall, 40% are reported to use public transport, which sounds about
right - adding up the figures above actually gives 42%, but there's also
bus and coaches, offset from that some of the passengers are staff (but
with unsocial hours, over 17,500 free staff car parking spaces on site
and a vigorous car-sharing policy, their use of public transport is
naturally going to be low).

Plus I guess some number of people seeing off or collecting people
which probably makes up the difference.

This discussion ignores the journeys to and fro of the people who work
there, surely? They are supposed to be a large part of the Connect target
market.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:55:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:18 on Fri, 29 Apr
2016, Someone Somewhere remarked:
Latest annual station usage stats:

T123 7.49m
T5 3.90m
T4 2.35m

Is that it? Any ideas about the Hex and Connect?

If only there was a way to find things like that out. Hold on, I'll see
if Tim Berners Lee has any ideas.

Given the number of passengers through Heathrow each year, let alone
staff, those numbers seem terribly low.

HEx is 5.84m a year and Connect a lowly 0.4m .

There is expected to be a sizeable shift from the Piccadilly Line to
Crossrail when it opens.

Yes, that sounds likely, though it may be affected by the relative fare
levels (I've, if Crossrail is a lot more expensive than the Tube).

One would hope it will simply be zone based and BAA won't throw their toys
out the pram and demand a surcharge for using their track. Perhaps its time
for a compulsory purchase of the permanent way.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:55:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:18 on Fri, 29 Apr
2016, Someone Somewhere remarked:
Latest annual station usage stats:

T123 7.49m
T5 3.90m
T4 2.35m

Is that it? Any ideas about the Hex and Connect?

If only there was a way to find things like that out. Hold on, I'll see
if Tim Berners Lee has any ideas.

Given the number of passengers through Heathrow each year, let alone
staff, those numbers seem terribly low.

HEx is 5.84m a year and Connect a lowly 0.4m .

There is expected to be a sizeable shift from the Piccadilly Line to
Crossrail when it opens.

Yes, that sounds likely, though it may be affected by the relative fare
levels (I've, if Crossrail is a lot more expensive than the Tube).

One would hope it will simply be zone based and BAA won't throw their toys
out the pram and demand a surcharge for using their track. Perhaps its time
for a compulsory purchase of the permanent way.

As long as there's a separate, premium-priced HEx service, I can't see HAL
cooperating in allowing pure zonal fares on the Lizzy Line, just as HCon
doesn't have them.

On 29/04/2016 16:12, wrote:
In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

On 29/04/2016 10:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:18 on Fri, 29 Apr
2016, Someone Somewhere remarked:
snip
Given the number of passengers through Heathrow each year, let alone
staff, those numbers seem terribly low.

snip
offset from that some of the passengers are staff (but
with unsocial hours, over 17,500 free staff car parking spaces on site
and a vigorous car-sharing policy, their use of public transport is
naturally going to be low).

snip

This discussion ignores the journeys to and fro of the people who work
there, surely? They are supposed to be a large part of the Connect target
market.

In what way "ignores"? I said "let alone staff"? and Roland mentioned
that some are staff and some good reasons why there are not more staff.

In message
-sept
ember.org, Recliner wrote:
Looking at the evening peak, there's 23 trains leaving Gloucester Road
between 17:00 and 18:00, split 11 to Heathrow (6:5 between the T4 and
T5) and 12 towards Rayners Lane (7 to Uxbridge). There's 23 between
18:00 and 19:00, now split 13:10 (still 7 to Uxbridge). That's not "much
more intense".

Those figures don't sound right.

I've been using the Piccadilly line Rayner's Lane branch since well before
the Heathrow extensions opened, and the service used to be split evenly
between the two western branches. Now, I sometimes have to wait for three
or even four Heathrow trains to pass before a Rayner's Lane or Uxbridge
train shows up. I find it really hard to believe there's any hour in the
day when more trains go to Rayner's Lane/Uxbridge than to Heathrow. My
observation is that at least 60% go to Heathrow.

Those figures were taken straight from the TfL on-line timetable pages.

Yes, *but* that wasn't the basis they were ordered on.
True, but in effect some of the S stock trains have replaced Piccadilly
trains transferred from the Uxbridge services to Heathrow.

I don't know if that is true, because I don't have service data for the
various branches over time.

You'd have to show that (a) the Uxbridge branch gets a better peak
service now than in the past (peak since that's when most trains are
used) and (b) that requires more trains than before rather than being
done through better turnaround.

Somebody (not me) who keeps old issues of Underground News could look
for old working timetable information.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, Recliner wrote:
Looking at the evening peak, there's 23 trains leaving Gloucester Road
between 17:00 and 18:00, split 11 to Heathrow (6:5 between the T4 and
T5) and 12 towards Rayners Lane (7 to Uxbridge). There's 23 between
18:00 and 19:00, now split 13:10 (still 7 to Uxbridge). That's not "much
more intense".

Those figures don't sound right.

I've been using the Piccadilly line Rayner's Lane branch since well before
the Heathrow extensions opened, and the service used to be split evenly
between the two western branches. Now, I sometimes have to wait for three
or even four Heathrow trains to pass before a Rayner's Lane or Uxbridge
train shows up. I find it really hard to believe there's any hour in the
day when more trains go to Rayner's Lane/Uxbridge than to Heathrow. My
observation is that at least 60% go to Heathrow.

Those figures were taken straight from the TfL on-line timetable pages.

Strange, my experience is very different. Is that hour atypical? It
certainly seems that way to me, a regular user of the line.


Yes, *but* that wasn't the basis they were ordered on.

True, but in effect some of the S stock trains have replaced Piccadilly
trains transferred from the Uxbridge services to Heathrow.

I don't know if that is true, because I don't have service data for the
various branches over time.

You'd have to show that (a) the Uxbridge branch gets a better peak
service now than in the past (peak since that's when most trains are
used) and (b) that requires more trains than before rather than being
done through better turnaround.

It's my very strong anecdotal memory, but not something I can prove.

But it's not necessarily the case that the Uxbridge branch gets a better
service overall (though I think it probably does), just that a much higher
proportion of the trains are now Met rather than Picc. There is a frequent
Met service at Uxbridge now, but a very infrequent Picc service. And I
don't think there are any Picc reversers between Rayner's Lane and Uxbridge
(eg, at Ruislip or Ickenham) any more; the reversers now no longer get
beyond Rayner's Lane.


Somebody (not me) who keeps old issues of Underground News could look
for old working timetable information.

I don't keep mine either.

In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

On 29/04/2016 16:12, wrote:
In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

On 29/04/2016 10:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:18 on Fri, 29 Apr
2016, Someone Somewhere remarked:
snip
Given the number of passengers through Heathrow each year, let alone
staff, those numbers seem terribly low.

snip
offset from that some of the passengers are staff (but
with unsocial hours, over 17,500 free staff car parking spaces on site
and a vigorous car-sharing policy, their use of public transport is
naturally going to be low).

snip

This discussion ignores the journeys to and fro of the people who work
there, surely? They are supposed to be a large part of the Connect
target market.

In what way "ignores"? I said "let alone staff"? and Roland
mentioned that some are staff and some good reasons why there are not
more staff.

The actual figures were all passengers.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 08:27:22 on Fri, 29 Apr 2016, Recliner
remarked:
Further into the future, if a third runway is built, there will be a new
western terminal, which may be adjacent to T5, and share its three
underground stations.

There are only two. Recent poorly-written articles about a "secret
station" are in fact about extra as-yet-unused platforms at the heavy
rail station.

When it eventually opens, who knows whether it will be shown as a new GWR
station or a pair of extra platforms at what is currently the HEx station?
The GWR station may be gated, the HEx station isn't, as it's free to the
central station.

It's inevitable that it'll be just one station because there will be
through trains (I don't think it's yet been decided if HEx or Crossrail
would run the 2tph Paddington-Heathrow-Reading trains; very unlikely to
be FGW or successor).

Through trains will presumably use the current HEx platform pair. The
currently unused platform pair could be used for a different service,
perhaps to Staines and beyond.

You can't have terminating and reversing trains using the same platform
as though trains because the through trains will be right behind a
terminating one and therefore considerably delayed.
--
Roland Perry