On 2016\06\29 10:45, wrote:
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the developed
world been adopting similar projects for decades?

Vanity? ;-)

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:11:47 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\06\29 10:45, wrote:
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the developed
world been adopting similar projects for decades?

Vanity? ;-)

Hardly. The Japanese high speed routes are now so busy that they are
starting to build even higher speed routes to supplement their early
Shinkansens with the maglev Chuo Shinkansen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen

But the French probably went too far. They've built most of the
sensible LGVs, but were then pushed by regional politicians to extend
them too much. Some of those planned extensions are now being
cancelled.

wrote in message
...
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote:
;156544']Now that the entire population of the Middle East are no
longer moving to London, are any major schemes about to be
cancelled?

If disaster hits our country and the twerp Johnson becomes Prime
Minister, I imagine neither Heathrow nor Gatwick will be expanded.

The National Audit office has already suggested that HS2 should be
delayed, supposedly to reduce costs.

there are plenty here who think that vanity project will nor be
entirely missed

It's a lot more than a vanity project. There will be severe capacity
limitations on the WCML very soon now if it isn't built.

I suppose that is the problem of coming to a group where not
everybody has engaged in (an earlier) discussion on this subject
elsewhere

Whilst it is true that capacity problems might dictate that the best
solution is for a new two track railway between London and Trent
Valley junctions, plus (as separate requirements) rebuilding Euston
and the long promised Stafford cut off

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the
developed
world been adopting similar projects for decades?

because they have a different geographical spread of their population than
we do

tim



--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote:
;156544']Now that the entire population of the Middle East are no
longer moving to London, are any major schemes about to be
cancelled?

If disaster hits our country and the twerp Johnson becomes Prime
Minister, I imagine neither Heathrow nor Gatwick will be expanded.

The National Audit office has already suggested that HS2 should be
delayed, supposedly to reduce costs.

there are plenty here who think that vanity project will nor be
entirely missed

It's a lot more than a vanity project. There will be severe capacity
limitations on the WCML very soon now if it isn't built.

I suppose that is the problem of coming to a group where not
everybody has engaged in (an earlier) discussion on this subject
elsewhere

Whilst it is true that capacity problems might dictate that the best
solution is for a new two track railway between London and Trent
Valley junctions, plus (as separate requirements) rebuilding Euston
and the long promised Stafford cut off

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the
developed world been adopting similar projects for decades?

because they have a different geographical spread of their population
than we do

Japan?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote:
;156544']Now that the entire population of the Middle East are no
longer moving to London, are any major schemes about to be
cancelled?

If disaster hits our country and the twerp Johnson becomes Prime
Minister, I imagine neither Heathrow nor Gatwick will be expanded.

The National Audit office has already suggested that HS2 should be
delayed, supposedly to reduce costs.

there are plenty here who think that vanity project will nor be
entirely missed

It's a lot more than a vanity project. There will be severe capacity
limitations on the WCML very soon now if it isn't built.

I suppose that is the problem of coming to a group where not
everybody has engaged in (an earlier) discussion on this subject
elsewhere

Whilst it is true that capacity problems might dictate that the best
solution is for a new two track railway between London and Trent
Valley junctions, plus (as separate requirements) rebuilding Euston
and the long promised Stafford cut off

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the
developed world been adopting similar projects for decades?

because they have a different geographical spread of their population
than we do

Japan?

Or South Korea?
https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Hig...in_South_Korea

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
wrote:
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote:
;156544']Now that the entire population of the Middle East are no
longer moving to London, are any major schemes about to be
cancelled?

If disaster hits our country and the twerp Johnson becomes Prime
Minister, I imagine neither Heathrow nor Gatwick will be expanded.

The National Audit office has already suggested that HS2 should be
delayed, supposedly to reduce costs.

there are plenty here who think that vanity project will nor be
entirely missed

It's a lot more than a vanity project. There will be severe capacity
limitations on the WCML very soon now if it isn't built.

I suppose that is the problem of coming to a group where not
everybody has engaged in (an earlier) discussion on this subject
elsewhere

Whilst it is true that capacity problems might dictate that the best
solution is for a new two track railway between London and Trent
Valley junctions, plus (as separate requirements) rebuilding Euston
and the long promised Stafford cut off

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the
developed world been adopting similar projects for decades?

because they have a different geographical spread of their population
than we do

Japan?

Or South Korea?
https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Hig...in_South_Korea

aare either of those meant to disprove my claim?

please show your working

tim

tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
wrote:
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote:
;156544']Now that the entire population of the Middle East are no
longer moving to London, are any major schemes about to be
cancelled?

If disaster hits our country and the twerp Johnson becomes Prime
Minister, I imagine neither Heathrow nor Gatwick will be expanded.

The National Audit office has already suggested that HS2 should be
delayed, supposedly to reduce costs.

there are plenty here who think that vanity project will nor be
entirely missed

It's a lot more than a vanity project. There will be severe capacity
limitations on the WCML very soon now if it isn't built.

I suppose that is the problem of coming to a group where not
everybody has engaged in (an earlier) discussion on this subject
elsewhere

Whilst it is true that capacity problems might dictate that the best
solution is for a new two track railway between London and Trent
Valley junctions, plus (as separate requirements) rebuilding Euston
and the long promised Stafford cut off

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the
developed world been adopting similar projects for decades?

because they have a different geographical spread of their population
than we do

Japan?

Or South Korea?
https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Hig...in_South_Korea

aare either of those meant to disprove my claim?

please show your working

We don't have to disprove your unlikely claim. You're the one who said
there was something about Britain that made it so unlike Japan, Korea,
France, Germany, Italy, Spain, China, etc. You need to explain what is so
different about Britain.

On 30/06/2016 09:07, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
wrote:
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...


The National Audit office has already suggested that HS2 should be
delayed, supposedly to reduce costs.

there are plenty here who think that vanity project will nor be
entirely missed

It's a lot more than a vanity project. There will be severe capacity
limitations on the WCML very soon now if it isn't built.

I suppose that is the problem of coming to a group where not
everybody has engaged in (an earlier) discussion on this subject
elsewhere

Whilst it is true that capacity problems might dictate that the best
solution is for a new two track railway between London and Trent
Valley junctions, plus (as separate requirements) rebuilding Euston
and the long promised Stafford cut off

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the
developed world been adopting similar projects for decades?

because they have a different geographical spread of their population
than we do

Japan?

Or South Korea?
https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Hig...in_South_Korea

aare either of those meant to disprove my claim?

please show your working

We don't have to disprove your unlikely claim. You're the one who said
there was something about Britain that made it so unlike Japan, Korea,
France, Germany, Italy, Spain, China, etc. You need to explain what is so
different about Britain.


Isn't it that we are a smaller, denser island that is even more
capital-centric than many of the others?

There are no big transport corridors of the right length where the
benefits of 30% faster (by top speed) rail travel will produce
appreciable benefits (the TGV was spurred on by the Paris-Lyon route
which is of the right length)

Don't forget in Japan they have (or had) several air corridors served by
747s configured with 530 or so seats - I don't see many domestic routes
in the UK like that.

We also have had pseudo-high-speed-rail in the guise of the HSTs and
latterly class 90s, Pendolinos, Voyagers etc, that provide almost all
the benefits that true high speed rail will provide without having to
compulsorily purchase large numbers of properties on the way.

In terms of capacity, I realise there is freight and local services, but
is there really no scope for increasing the number of InterCity trains
north from Euston beyond 9/hour?

Do we really need to get to Birmingham 23 minutes quicker, even if that
is a 30% improvement?

People witter on about not building roads because it increases the
incentive for people to drive, but surely this is the case for railways
as well - is it reasonable for large numbers of people to commute from
Birmingham or Manchester to London? Surely we shouldn't be encouraging it!

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 09:47:41 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote:
In terms of capacity, I realise there is freight and local services, but
is there really no scope for increasing the number of InterCity trains
north from Euston beyond 9/hour?

Obviously not or they'd have probably done it. AFAIK the real reason for HS2
is to free up paths on the WCML for freight though I guess this wouldn't play
too well with the public: "We need you lot to pay for this fancy train so
we can shift more containers. Soz"

--
Spud

"Someone Somewhere" wrote in message
...
On 30/06/2016 09:07, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
wrote:
In article ,
(tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...


The National Audit office has already suggested that HS2 should
be
delayed, supposedly to reduce costs.

there are plenty here who think that vanity project will nor be
entirely missed

It's a lot more than a vanity project. There will be severe
capacity
limitations on the WCML very soon now if it isn't built.

I suppose that is the problem of coming to a group where not
everybody has engaged in (an earlier) discussion on this subject
elsewhere

Whilst it is true that capacity problems might dictate that the
best
solution is for a new two track railway between London and Trent
Valley junctions, plus (as separate requirements) rebuilding Euston
and the long promised Stafford cut off

the rest is a totally unnecessary vanity project

If High Speed Rail is a "vanity project" then why has most of the
developed world been adopting similar projects for decades?

because they have a different geographical spread of their population
than we do

Japan?

Or South Korea?
https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Hig...in_South_Korea

aare either of those meant to disprove my claim?

please show your working

We don't have to disprove your unlikely claim. You're the one who said
there was something about Britain that made it so unlike Japan, Korea,
France, Germany, Italy, Spain, China, etc. You need to explain what is
so
different about Britain.


Isn't it that we are a smaller, denser island that is even more
capital-centric than many of the others?

thank you :-)

plus the smaller regional centres are much closer together, so the time
savings from HS lines between them is marginal

tim