In article , d ()
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul
2016, d remarked:

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north
and south circulars, not the cc zone:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...an-to-double-s
ize-londons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a
car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards
introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted
a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary.

There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are
more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. So
all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the
roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee.

I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and
the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply
dump the lot and ask
him to rethink.

Since they're also the main victims of the excessive pollution, it seems
more reasonable than some taxes.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

d wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 20:14:57 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Yes, it seems car drivers seem to be the cause of all traffic ills
in London when if you look at the average central london traffic
jam it usually
consists
of buses, taxis & minicabs. Which is probably why Kahn wants to
extend the congestion charge to the north circular (hopefully
exclusive, not inclusive). I have no problem restricting cars in
the central area, but taking it that far out is just taking the
**** and simply a cynical money raising scheme.

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the
north and south circulars, not the cc zone:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-double-size-l
ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has
a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

Under the current plans, residents will have an extra 3 years (until
2023) to comply with the emissions standards.

Peter Smyth

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:46:42 -0500
wrote:
In article , d ()
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul
2016, d remarked:

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north
and south circulars, not the cc zone:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...an-to-double-s
ize-londons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a
car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards
introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted
a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary.

There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are
more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. So
all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the
roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee.

I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and
the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply
dump the lot and ask
him to rethink.

Since they're also the main victims of the excessive pollution, it seems
more reasonable than some taxes.

While I'll agree something needs to be done about the pollution in London,
essentially outlawing cars that that will affect the less well off is not the
way to do it. The millionaire in his 8mpg 2016 Lambo isn't going to be
affected but the single mum in a low paid job (for example) driving a 2000
micra will be. Its disgusting.

Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for years
so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise.

--
Spud

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 21:32:11 -0000 (UTC)
"Peter Smyth" wrote:
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 20:14:57 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Yes, it seems car drivers seem to be the cause of all traffic ills
in London when if you look at the average central london traffic
jam it usually
consists
of buses, taxis & minicabs. Which is probably why Kahn wants to
extend the congestion charge to the north circular (hopefully
exclusive, not inclusive). I have no problem restricting cars in
the central area, but taking it that far out is just taking the
**** and simply a cynical money raising scheme.

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the
north and south circulars, not the cc zone:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-double-size-l
ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has
a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

Under the current plans, residents will have an extra 3 years (until
2023) to comply with the emissions standards.

3 years to save up for a new , or at least slightly less old car. Just what
people need when they're already struggling to make ends meet.

--
Spud

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul
2016, d remarked:

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and
south circulars, not the cc zone:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...to-double-size
l
ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a
car
older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards
introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted
a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary.

There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are
more
than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one.

I've got a car from 06, it's worth perhaps 1200 pounds.

how much cheaper than that do you expect to get (and still get a car that
reliably starts every time you want it to?)

tim

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:20:29 +0100
"tim..." wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul
2016, d remarked:

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and
south circulars, not the cc zone:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...n-to-double-si
e
l
ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a
car
older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards
introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted
a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary.

There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are
more
than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one.

I've got a car from 06, it's worth perhaps 1200 pounds.

how much cheaper than that do you expect to get (and still get a car that
reliably starts every time you want it to?)

If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you
think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around
some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates.
Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000 vehicles.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:20:29 +0100
"tim..." wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul
2016, d remarked:

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and
south circulars, not the cc zone:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...n-to-double-si
e
l
ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a
car
older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards
introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted
a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary.

There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are
more
than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one.

I've got a car from 06, it's worth perhaps 1200 pounds.

how much cheaper than that do you expect to get (and still get a car that
reliably starts every time you want it to?)

If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you
think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around
some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates.
Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000 vehicles.

I think it's only old diesels that are affected. Small old cars are rarely
diesels.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:33:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you
think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around
some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates.
Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000
vehicles.

I think it's only old diesels that are affected. Small old cars are rarely
diesels.

Is it only diesels? Yes, there will be fewer of them about except for transits
which seem to go on forever.

Will be interesting to see if Kahn intends to apply this rule to buses, some
of which are knocking on a bit out in the suburbs where old buses go to die.

--
Spud

In article , d () wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:46:42 -0500
wrote:
In article ,
() wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul
2016, d remarked:

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north
and south circulars, not the cc zone:


https://www.theguardian.com/environm...han-to-double-
size-londons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has
a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards
introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers
fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary.

There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are
more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one.
So all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the
roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee.

I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and
the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply
dump the lot and ask him to rethink.

Since they're also the main victims of the excessive pollution, it seems
more reasonable than some taxes.

While I'll agree something needs to be done about the pollution in
London, essentially outlawing cars that that will affect the less
well off is not the way to do it. The millionaire in his 8mpg 2016
Lambo isn't going to be
affected but the single mum in a low paid job (for example) driving a
2000 micra will be. Its disgusting.

Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for
years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise.

If the pollution is reduced then the residents, even the poor ones, will be
better off health-wise.

Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old
petrol-engined car as I have.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:33:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you
think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around
some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates.
Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000
vehicles.

I think it's only old diesels that are affected. Small old cars are rarely
diesels.

Is it only diesels? Yes, there will be fewer of them about except for transits
which seem to go on forever.

Much newer diesels than petrol-engined cars will be subject to the charge:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle?intcmp=32646#on-this-page-2



Will be interesting to see if Kahn intends to apply this rule to buses, some
of which are knocking on a bit out in the suburbs where old buses go to die.

Just curious, why do you call him "Kahn"?

Yes, coaches TfL buses are also affected:

Quote:

"By 2020, all double-decker TfL buses operating in central London will be
hybrid and all single-decker buses will be zero emission (at point of use).
This means a substantial number of double-decker buses operating in inner
London will be hybrid, as will many in outer London

We will progressively increase the number of these buses. From 2020 only
buses of this type will be allowed to operate on routes in the ULEZ"