wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:46:42 -0500
wrote:
In article ,
d () wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul
2016, d remarked:

I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north
and south circulars, not the cc zone:


https://www.theguardian.com/environm...han-to-double-
size-londons-clean-air-zone-pollution

Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has
a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it!

It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards
introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers
fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary.

There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are
more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one.
So all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the
roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee.

I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and
the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply
dump the lot and ask him to rethink.

Since they're also the main victims of the excessive pollution, it seems
more reasonable than some taxes.

While I'll agree something needs to be done about the pollution in
London, essentially outlawing cars that that will affect the less
well off is not the way to do it. The millionaire in his 8mpg 2016
Lambo isn't going to be
affected but the single mum in a low paid job (for example) driving a
2000 micra will be. Its disgusting.

Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for
years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise.

If the pollution is reduced then the residents, even the poor ones, will be
better off health-wise.

Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old
petrol-engined car as I have.

It does apply to petrol as well, but only on much older vehicles. In 2020,
the many five-year-old diesel cars will be subject to the tax, but only
14-year-old petrol cars (of which not many remain on the roads).

In message , at 05:29:11
on Mon, 18 Jul 2016, remarked:
While I'll agree something needs to be done about the pollution in
London, essentially outlawing cars that that will affect the less
well off is not the way to do it. The millionaire in his 8mpg 2016
Lambo isn't going to be
affected but the single mum in a low paid job (for example) driving a
2000 micra will be. Its disgusting.

Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for
years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise.

If the pollution is reduced then the residents, even the poor ones, will be
better off health-wise.

Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old
petrol-engined car as I have.

The problem with that is they tend to be gas guzzlers. I swapped my 2001
petrol car for a 2005 diesel last year and literally doubled the MPG
(same size engine and a slightly bigger vehicle).
--
Roland Perry

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 10:44:08 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016, Recliner
remarked:
Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old
petrol-engined car as I have.

It does apply to petrol as well, but only on much older vehicles. In 2020,
the many five-year-old diesel cars will be subject to the tax, but only
14-year-old petrol cars (of which not many remain on the roads).

Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later would
have a sufficiently clean engine.
--
Roland Perry

On 2016-07-18 11:09:44 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later
would have a sufficiently clean engine.

He's right - they are going for the *next* Euro standard for diesels -
you can't even buy one yet, or if you can they've only been out for a
year or so.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

I've got a fairly-new Volkswagen for sale. It gives zero-emissions.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 05:29:11 -0500
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:
Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for
years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise.

If the pollution is reduced then the residents, even the poor ones, will be
better off health-wise.

Yes, but there are better ways of doing it than suddenly imposing a tax.
They could say that your *current* car won't be taxed no matter what its age,
but when you buy your next one *that* will be unless it meets XYZ regulations.

--
Spud

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:37:25 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:33:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you
think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around
some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates.
Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000
vehicles.

I think it's only old diesels that are affected. Small old cars are rarely
diesels.

Is it only diesels? Yes, there will be fewer of them about except for
transits
which seem to go on forever.

Much newer diesels than petrol-engined cars will be subject to the charge:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ult...our-vehicle?in
cmp=32646#on-this-page-2

Thats the current low emissions zone. Who knows what the rules will be for
the extended one out to the north circ if he goes ahead with it.

Will be interesting to see if Kahn intends to apply this rule to buses, some
of which are knocking on a bit out in the suburbs where old buses go to die.

Just curious, why do you call him "Kahn"?

Kahn, Khan, who cares, he's a prick however you spell his name. Anyway, its
probably because that maker of bling range rovers is spelt k-a-h-n and thats
the only other one I know.

--
Spud

On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:44:08 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
It does apply to petrol as well, but only on much older vehicles. In 2020,
the many five-year-old diesel cars will be subject to the tax, but only
14-year-old petrol cars (of which not many remain on the roads).

I forsee a large increase in the number of right hand drive bulgarian and
romanian registered cars on the roads in london.

--
Spud

In message , at 13:06:05 on Mon, 18
Jul 2016, Neil Williams remarked:
Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later
would have a sufficiently clean engine.

He's right - they are going for the *next* Euro standard for diesels -
you can't even buy one yet, or if you can they've only been out for a
year or so.

Mine is Euro 4 (2005 on), and I thought they wanted to discourage
anything that wasn't at least Euro 5 (2009 onwards).

The goalposts have moved to Euro 6? (2014 on).
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 08:47:47AM +0000, d wrote:

The few times we tried it it actually took longer to shop online than actually
do it in the shop.

I don't see how that is even possible. I just add items to my shopping
basket whenever I'm close to running out of them. That takes about as
long as writing them on a shopping list would.

Then placing the order at the end of the week takes far less time than
walking to the shop, let alone walking around the shop and then back
home again.

Finally, the time it takes to accept delivery is basically zero, because
all I have to do is open the door, take bags off them, and that's it.

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity
-- Hanlon's Razor

Stupidity maintained long enough is a form of malice
-- Richard Bos's corollary