Graham Murray wrote:
Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 13:50:29 on Sat, 30 Jul
2016, " remarked:

Are they ever going to figure out air conditioning for Tube trains?

Pump the heat out of the trains into the tunnels and stations. What
could possibly go wrong?

And equip alternate stations with powerful air conditioners and
extractor fans, creating a cooling airflow along the tunnels.

Some of that is already in place. Ventilation has been significantly
improved in many stations, and I think some use heat exchangers to cool the
air using pumped ground water.

As for the trains, the NTfL is intended to incorporate saloon cooling, as
well as emitting less heat in the first place. See page 24 in
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/ntfl-feasibility-report.pdf

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:50:29 on Sat, 30 Jul 2016,
" remarked:

Are they ever going to figure out air conditioning for Tube trains?

Pump the heat out of the trains into the tunnels and stations. What could
possibly go wrong?
--
Roland Perry

Eurotunnel manage something like that in the Channel Tunnel, and they don't
have stations every few hundred yards where they can remove the excess heat
generated.

--
DAS

On 30/07/2016 20:50, D A Stocks wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:50:29 on Sat, 30 Jul
2016, " remarked:

Are they ever going to figure out air conditioning for Tube trains?

Pump the heat out of the trains into the tunnels and stations. What
could possibly go wrong?
--
Roland Perry

Eurotunnel manage something like that in the Channel Tunnel, and they
don't have stations every few hundred yards where they can remove the
excess heat generated.

--
DAS

But, the holes that the trains run through are vastly larger than tube
tunnels - and they have the service tunnel as well. Much more scope for
cooling if needed!

Colin

On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 08:50:00PM +0100, D A Stocks wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
Pump the heat out of the trains into the tunnels and stations. What could
possibly go wrong?
Eurotunnel manage something like that in the Channel Tunnel, and they don't
have stations every few hundred yards where they can remove the excess heat
generated.

Yeah, and that means that they don't have to worry about the stations
being uncomfortably hot.

--
header FROM_DAVID_CANTRELL From =~ /david.cantrell/i
describe FROM_DAVID_CANTRELL Message is from David Cantrell
score FROM_DAVID_CANTRELL 15.72 # This figure from experimentation

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\07\29 13:50, Schnuzelbug (Chris Date) wrote:
Photos and video in link.

---

Crossrail Elizabeth Line trainset unveiled
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/t...-unveiled.html

"UK: The first of 66 electric multiple-units for the Crossrail project
was unveiled by Transport for London at Bombardier’s Derby factory on July 29.

Following dynamic testing at the Derby plant, the first train is to
undergo trials at the Old Dalby test centre during August. This will
include carrying more than 100 tonnes of weight to simulate passengers.
A car is also to be sent to a climatic chamber. Once trials are
completed, the test equipment will be removed from the first trains and
the interiors will be fitted out with seats before delivery for passenger service.

The Class 345 EMUs are part of Bombardier’s Aventra family, and
according to TfL production in Derby is helping to support 760 jobs and 80
apprenticeships. Barber & Osgerby is acting as design adviser.

The EMUs feature wide gangways, air-conditioning, CCTV and real-time
travel information, and are equipped for regenerative braking which is
expected to result in energy savings of up to 30%.

The Class 345 is scheduled to enter service on TfL Rail services between
London Liverpool Street and Shenfield in May 2017. The first trainsets
will initially comprise seven cars and be 160 m long to fit the existing
platforms at Liverpool Street. Nine-car sets 200 m long with a capacity
of 1 500 passengers are expected to be introduced from May 2018,
initially running between Heathrow Airport and Paddington.

The full route linking Reading and Heathrow in the west and Shenfield
and Abbey Wood in the east via new tunnels under central London is
scheduled to open in 2019, and will be called the Elizabeth Line.

‘The Elizabeth Line trains, which are a great showcase of British design
and manufacture, will be running on part of our network within a year’,
said London Transport Commissioner Mike Brown at the unveiling event.
‘The trains are fully accessible, will have air-cooling, and once the
whole line opens, they will help our passengers move more easily into
and across the city every day.’"


Thanks. They seem to have put the full Elizabeth Line map over the door
at 1:12 ... surely they will need a Liverpool Street - Shenfield only
map initially!


I don't suppose the maps are applied in the factory with the production
trains. They'll be stuck in and updated as needed by the operator.

But will the initial trains even be labelled as 'Elizabeth Line'? I
thought the new name would only be used once the trains can use the tunnel.

On 29.07.16 18:12, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\07\29 13:50, Schnuzelbug (Chris Date) wrote:
Photos and video in link.

---

Crossrail Elizabeth Line trainset unveiled
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/t...-unveiled.html

"UK: The first of 66 electric multiple-units for the Crossrail project
was unveiled by Transport for London at Bombardier’s Derby factory on July 29.

Following dynamic testing at the Derby plant, the first train is to
undergo trials at the Old Dalby test centre during August. This will
include carrying more than 100 tonnes of weight to simulate passengers.
A car is also to be sent to a climatic chamber. Once trials are
completed, the test equipment will be removed from the first trains and
the interiors will be fitted out with seats before delivery for passenger service.

The Class 345 EMUs are part of Bombardier’s Aventra family, and
according to TfL production in Derby is helping to support 760 jobs and 80
apprenticeships. Barber & Osgerby is acting as design adviser.

The EMUs feature wide gangways, air-conditioning, CCTV and real-time
travel information, and are equipped for regenerative braking which is
expected to result in energy savings of up to 30%.

The Class 345 is scheduled to enter service on TfL Rail services between
London Liverpool Street and Shenfield in May 2017. The first trainsets
will initially comprise seven cars and be 160 m long to fit the existing
platforms at Liverpool Street. Nine-car sets 200 m long with a capacity
of 1 500 passengers are expected to be introduced from May 2018,
initially running between Heathrow Airport and Paddington.

The full route linking Reading and Heathrow in the west and Shenfield
and Abbey Wood in the east via new tunnels under central London is
scheduled to open in 2019, and will be called the Elizabeth Line.

‘The Elizabeth Line trains, which are a great showcase of British design
and manufacture, will be running on part of our network within a year’,
said London Transport Commissioner Mike Brown at the unveiling event.
‘The trains are fully accessible, will have air-cooling, and once the
whole line opens, they will help our passengers move more easily into
and across the city every day.’"


Thanks. They seem to have put the full Elizabeth Line map over the door
at 1:12 ... surely they will need a Liverpool Street - Shenfield only
map initially!


I don't suppose the maps are applied in the factory with the production
trains. They'll be stuck in and updated as needed by the operator.

But will the initial trains even be labelled as 'Elizabeth Line'? I
thought the new name would only be used once the trains can use the tunnel.

I was wondering same. Essentially, this will be LO service between
Liverpool Street and Shenfield with a cool new train.

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 17:12:48 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

I don't suppose the maps are applied in the factory with the production
trains. They'll be stuck in and updated as needed by the operator.

But will the initial trains even be labelled as 'Elizabeth Line'? I
thought the new name would only be used once the trains can use the
tunnel.

No they won't. TfL Rail applies until Dec 2018. It will apply even
when TfL take Heathrow Connect services in May 2018. All changes come
Dec 2018. See the footnotes to this press release about Paddington
Bakerloo Line reopening.


https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...kerloo-line-se
rves-paddington-station-again-from-today

Was Crossrail/Elizabeth line always only going to terminate at Terminal 4 in
Heathrow?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 17:12:48 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

I don't suppose the maps are applied in the factory with the production
trains. They'll be stuck in and updated as needed by the operator.

But will the initial trains even be labelled as 'Elizabeth Line'? I
thought the new name would only be used once the trains can use the
tunnel.

No they won't. TfL Rail applies until Dec 2018. It will apply even
when TfL take Heathrow Connect services in May 2018. All changes come
Dec 2018. See the footnotes to this press release about Paddington
Bakerloo Line reopening.


https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...kerloo-line-se
rves-paddington-station-again-from-today

Was Crossrail/Elizabeth line always only going to terminate at Terminal 4 in
Heathrow?

It replaces Heathrow Connect, which terminates at T4. HEx has T5. But I
still doubt the long term future of HEx. If it gets merged into Crossrail,
then all the terminals would be served by the same Tube and Rail services,
which would be much simpler.

What's particularly confusing to a visitor today is that the HCon station
in T4 is labelled as a HEx, not a HCon station, despite the fact that only
HCon trains serve it:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/26830662545/in/photolist-FXuZNR-GSWad6-GsQvXd-GsQvRS-GsQuX7-GsQw19-GJDBvL

If/when the western link opens, and there are through trains, then I'm sure
Crossrail will have to serve T5.

Recliner wrote:
It replaces Heathrow Connect, which terminates at T4. HEx has T5. But I
still doubt the long term future of HEx. If it gets merged into Crossrail,
then all the terminals would be served by the same Tube and Rail services,
which would be much simpler.

Assuming a unified fares structure, does the layout preclude HEx
trains running into the Crossrail tunnel? eg fast Heathrow-Paddington, then
taking the tunnel and going to Abbey Wood, say? I can understand Heathrow
passengers not wanting an additional 6 stops between Heathrow and
Paddington.

Actually, I don't think I've seen the service pattern fully described
anywhere. (ie which branches will be joined together, what will fast and
slow trains do, how many trains will turn back and where - the 'route
diagrams', not just 'X trains per hour to central London'). Has it been
publically stated?

Theo

On 03 Aug 2016 11:29:56 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

Recliner wrote:
It replaces Heathrow Connect, which terminates at T4. HEx has T5. But I
still doubt the long term future of HEx. If it gets merged into Crossrail,
then all the terminals would be served by the same Tube and Rail services,
which would be much simpler.

Assuming a unified fares structure, does the layout preclude HEx
trains running into the Crossrail tunnel? eg fast Heathrow-Paddington, then
taking the tunnel and going to Abbey Wood, say? I can understand Heathrow
passengers not wanting an additional 6 stops between Heathrow and
Paddington.

No, only the Relief lines are connected to the tunnel. Trains on the
Main lines would have to cross the Reliefs on the flat to access the
tunnel.


Actually, I don't think I've seen the service pattern fully described
anywhere. (ie which branches will be joined together, what will fast and
slow trains do, how many trains will turn back and where - the 'route
diagrams', not just 'X trains per hour to central London'). Has it been
publically stated?

From memory, there will be four Abbey Wood trains an hour to Heathrow.
The two Reading trains will go to the Shenfield branch. All the
Crossrail trains are, I think, stoppers.