On 05/08/2016 00:51, bob wrote:
wrote:


And there was me thinking that ticketing was one bit that wasn't meant to be
so fragmented after privatisation.

I thought the whole idea behind ITSO cards and technology was to avoid
precisely this issue. Where did it all go wrong?

A while ago I met some techies from a TOC and TfL, who told me there is
a big problem with the conflict between a political desire to let 'the
market' come up with something instead of being told what to do by the
government, and the practical need to have someone in charge who can
decide on a standard which everyone can then actually get on and use.

Everyone knows it is daft for every company to deploy its own system,
but co-ordination needs someone in charge to decide what to use. The
techies claimed that every time there was almost an agreement, Claire
Perry would run away and say it had to be left to the market rather than
DfT.

Plus, TOCs want to hold on to their passenger data, not share it with
rivals who might bid for the next franchise.

And there is the issue of goat-herding orphans, which acts as a brake on
technology. Even deciding they can just walk instead takes ages.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
...
On 05/08/2016 00:51, bob wrote:
wrote:


And there was me thinking that ticketing was one bit that wasn't meant
to be
so fragmented after privatisation.

I thought the whole idea behind ITSO cards and technology was to avoid
precisely this issue. Where did it all go wrong?

A while ago I met some techies from a TOC and TfL, who told me there is a
big problem with the conflict between a political desire to let 'the
market' come up with something instead of being told what to do by the
government, and the practical need to have someone in charge who can
decide on a standard which everyone can then actually get on and use.

Everyone knows it is daft for every company to deploy its own system, but
co-ordination needs someone in charge to decide what to use. The techies
claimed that every time there was almost an agreement, Claire Perry would
run away and say it had to be left to the market rather than DfT.

The smart-metering initiative seems to have suffered from the same problem.

Governments and IT, not a good mix!

Plus, TOCs want to hold on to their passenger data, not share it with
rivals who might bid for the next franchise.

And there is the issue of goat-herding orphans, which acts as a brake on
technology. Even deciding they can just walk instead takes ages.

There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by walk
ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use smart
card..

A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a set of
people (even if they do try to do this on London buses)

tim

In article , (tim...)
wrote:

There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by
walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use
smart card..

A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a
set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses)

Contactless largely undid that.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message
...
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by
walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use
smart card..

A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a
set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses)

Contactless largely undid that.

--

Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups when only
one between four has a card (which can only be used for one)

And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a registration
system

tim

In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by
walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use
smart card..

A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a
set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses)

Contactless largely undid that.

Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups
when only one between four has a card (which can only be used for one)

And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a
registration system

That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary to
use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most foreigners.
Many under-18s go free of course.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message
...
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by
walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use
smart card..

A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a
set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses)

Contactless largely undid that.

Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups
when only one between four has a card (which can only be used for one)

And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a
registration system

That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary to
use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most
foreigners.

Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not on a
one per family member basis

not all foreign banks offer contactless

Many under-18s go free of course.

We are talking about expansion to the national rail network, not London
buses

tim

In message , at 13:12:49 on Sun, 7 Aug 2016,
tim... remarked:
A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a
set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses)

Contactless largely undid that.

Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups
when only one between four has a card (which can only be used for one)

And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a
registration system

That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary to
use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most
foreigners.

Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not
on a one per family member basis

not all foreign banks offer contactless

That's just something that travellers have to cope with, like getting
the relevant foreign currency. You can easily get contactless pre-paid
cards from third parties.
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 13:12:49 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary
to
use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most
foreigners.

Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not on a
one per family member basis

not all foreign banks offer contactless

We have just had a referendum where the result was influenced by many
people deciding that foreigners should adapt to the ways of our
culture or bugger off so why should you care.

we are not talking about them adapting to our culture

we are talking about them being able to obtain tickets for long distance
rail travel, note that's "obtain at all", not "enjoy a discount on".

restricting that only to people who have a "magic" card of some type or
other seems ridiculous

tim

On 06/08/2016 10:10, tim... wrote:
There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by
walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use
smart card..

I was in Seoul last weekend and that's what they do there. The cost of
the journey includes a deposit of 500 won (approximately 35p) for the
ticket. There are machines outside the gateline that will accept the
card and return the deposit.