The term is private hire, and that is the crux of the matter.
If a disabled person with some unusual requirement hires
someone to fix their central heating boiler or mow their lawn,
the law of contract applies. If the person being hired does not
have the means to attend to the unusual requirement, laws
about equal treatment do not oblige that person to re-equip
themselves so that they can provide whatever is necessary.
They simply point out they have not offered to accommodate
the unusual demand and they decline the contract.

The legal position is exactly the same with private hire drivers.
Remember: they are not taxis and they do not ply for hire.
They have a vehicle and they are not making any false claims
about the vehicle's capability. Someone wants to hire the vehicle
and driver. It turns out the vehicle is not suited to the customer's
needs. The contract is declined.

That is why TfL does not insist that private hire drivers have cars
which can take non-foldable wheelchairs. It is significant that TfL
demands that private hire drivers accept guide dogs which, of
course, fit into any car although many Asian drivers dislike having
dogs in their cars. The point here being that declining passengers
who are accompanied by guide dogs would amount to discrimination.

bob wrote:

I think the true motivation becomes clear if you read it as minicab = Uber.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37038864

Quote:

Transport bosses have defended new regulations requiring private hire
drivers to pass a test in English, following criticism from Uber.

The company said the exam would put drivers out of work.

From 1 October, Transport for London (TfL) will require the qualification
of licence applicants from countries where English is not the majority
language.

It said the new rule had strong public support and was less stringent than
that imposed on black-cab drivers.
The new rules will apply to anyone seeking a new licence or a licence
renewal.

Initial proposals had called for only proficiency in spoken English, but
the final draft requires, among other criteria, at least an intermediate
language qualification.

Besides the spoken portion, the exam also tests reading, writing and
listening skills.

It is referred to as the "B1" level on the Common European Framework of
Reference for Languages and is equivalent to the level the national
curriculum in England expects of children aged nine to 11 years.

Someone who passes will have the "ability to express oneself in a limited
way in familiar situations and to deal in a general way with non-routine
information", the framework says.

'Threatened livelihoods'

Uber said it agreed with the requirement for drivers to pass a spoken exam
but said the full rules would "threaten the livelihood of thousands of
drivers".

In an email to users calling on them to write to the London Mayor, Sadiq
Khan, Uber's general manager in London, Tom Elvidge, said: "Fewer drivers
will mean longer waiting times or no cars when you need them most."

He also said the B1 qualification would demand more of applicants than the
British citizenship test.

But, according to the Home Office, that test also requires a B1 level in
English.

In addition, Mr Elvidge said TfL's new rules were more stringent than those
the government applied to employees who interacted with the public as part
of their duties.

TfL denied that, saying its rules were "in line with Home Office intentions
for customer-facing public-sector workers".

'Public support'

Helen Chapman, TfL's general manager of taxi and private hire, said: "We
are working to modernise and improve standards in London's private hire
industry.

"The proposal for an English language requirement was supported by 80% of
the 20,000 respondents in our recent consultation, suggesting very strong
public support.

"We think that it is appropriate for this requirement to apply to private
hire drivers, who will often be responsible for transporting vulnerable
passengers."

A TfL spokesman said it was presumed that to pass the black-cab drivers'
"Knowledge" exam, applicants would need a much higher proficiency in
English than the intermediate level to be required of private hire drivers.

That Uber don't like these new requirements and have prepared
a ready-made email for their drivers to send to TfL indicates three
things:

1) A lot of Uber drivers don't speak English very well;
2) Taking back in house the testing of private hire drivers and
setting even a moderate standard will immediately reduce the
number of new entrants;
3) The propaganda put out by the "remain" group that all
immigrants working in this country were exceptionally gifted
people unmatched by any Briton was nonsense.

On 11/08/2016 09:13, Robin9 wrote:

That Uber don't like these new requirements and have prepared
a ready-made email for their drivers to send to TfL indicates three
things:

1) A lot of Uber drivers don't speak English very well;
2) Taking back in house the testing of private hire drivers and
setting even a moderate standard will immediately reduce the
number of new entrants;
3) The propaganda put out by the "remain" group that all
immigrants working in this country were exceptionally gifted
people unmatched by any Briton was nonsense.

Why do we want less cabbies (of all types, including black and private
hire) anyway? Most other industries are left to set their own level of
employees and even where people are self-employed the market is somewhat
self-balancing.

Basically all a driver needs to understand is an address or postcode, in
particular with Uber if there are then problems you can deal with
customer services.

If the claim is that you need a decent level of English to drive in the
UK, then I can think of several areas of London which would suddenly
have a lot less cars on the road if that were to be enacted and enforced.

It's not like we're universally swamped at the moment, otherwise why did
Uber want to charge me a surge fare last night?

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:32:46 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 11/08/2016 09:13, Robin9 wrote:

That Uber don't like these new requirements and have prepared
a ready-made email for their drivers to send to TfL indicates three
things:

1) A lot of Uber drivers don't speak English very well;
2) Taking back in house the testing of private hire drivers and
setting even a moderate standard will immediately reduce the
number of new entrants;
3) The propaganda put out by the "remain" group that all
immigrants working in this country were exceptionally gifted
people unmatched by any Briton was nonsense.

Why do we want less cabbies (of all types, including black and private
hire) anyway? Most other industries are left to set their own level of
employees and even where people are self-employed the market is somewhat
self-balancing.

The ratio of empty black cabs to occupied round where I work is about 5:1.
A few less of them driving around in circles would sort out a lot of
congestion and pollution in one go.

If the claim is that you need a decent level of English to drive in the
UK, then I can think of several areas of London which would suddenly
have a lot less cars on the road if that were to be enacted and enforced.

Which could only be a good thing. If they can't speak or read english
properly then they probably have little idea about the highway code.

It's not like we're universally swamped at the moment, otherwise why did
Uber want to charge me a surge fare last night?

Because they could. And once they've killed off local minicab businesses just
watch the prices go up and the standards down. Still, it uses an app so that
makes it ok no matter what, right?

--
Spud

On Sun, Aug 07, 2016 at 09:48:46AM +0100, tim... wrote:

They have the duties and obligations of a "business", these are
significantly greater than the duties of a private individual

Businesses are required to make reasonable adjustments for disabled
customers and employees.

They are not required to make unreasonable adjustments. Farmers are not
required to concrete over their fields so that people in wheelchairs can
harvest the crop. Radio stations are not required to somehow make their
programming available to deaf people. Battersea Dogs Home is not
required to kill all the dogs so that they can employ someone who is
allergic to dogs. Minicab drivers are not required to replace or
substantially rebuild their vehicles.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than
by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
bob wrote:

I think the true motivation becomes clear if you read it as minicab =
Uber.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37038864

Quote:

Transport bosses have defended new regulations requiring private hire
drivers to pass a test in English, following criticism from Uber.

The company said the exam would put drivers out of work.

From 1 October, Transport for London (TfL) will require the qualification
of licence applicants from countries where English is not the majority
language.

It said the new rule had strong public support and was less stringent than
that imposed on black-cab drivers.
The new rules will apply to anyone seeking a new licence or a licence
renewal.

Initial proposals had called for only proficiency in spoken English, but
the final draft requires, among other criteria, at least an intermediate
language qualification.

Besides the spoken portion, the exam also tests reading, writing and
listening skills.

It is referred to as the "B1" level on the Common European Framework of
Reference for Languages and is equivalent to the level the national
curriculum in England expects of children aged nine to 11 years.

In their first language, not in a second one

After 6 years of lessons, I still hadn't achieved that level in French aged
16 (and I wasn't alone in that)

Though I will admit it's easier to learn a foreign language when you get to
practice it in the real world with fluent speakers, instead of just in a
classroom with people who are no better than you

But, reaching conversation level in a second language is still not a
slam-dunk, some people never manage it, however hard they try.

Though none of that is to say that I think the test isn't appropriate for
Taxi drivers. I do think that they should be able to master conversational
English, if they are targeting English speaking passengers.


A TfL spokesman said it was presumed that to pass the black-cab drivers'
"Knowledge" exam, applicants would need a much higher proficiency in
English than the intermediate level to be required of private hire
drivers.

I thought "the knowledge" training was specifically available in foreign
languages to give foreign speaking drivers a chance to qualify without
having fluent English.

tim

"Someone Somewhere" wrote in message
...
On 11/08/2016 09:13, Robin9 wrote:

That Uber don't like these new requirements and have prepared
a ready-made email for their drivers to send to TfL indicates three
things:

1) A lot of Uber drivers don't speak English very well;
2) Taking back in house the testing of private hire drivers and
setting even a moderate standard will immediately reduce the
number of new entrants;
3) The propaganda put out by the "remain" group that all
immigrants working in this country were exceptionally gifted
people unmatched by any Briton was nonsense.

Why do we want less cabbies (of all types, including black and private
hire) anyway? Most other industries are left to set their own level of
employees and even where people are self-employed the market is somewhat
self-balancing.

because by being a self employed person and "earning" minimum wage for the
minimum number of hours, entitles you to in work benefits.

That may not be very much for as single guy, but bring your family over and
you soon get someone earning 8K a year, "contributing" 300 quid in NI and
taxes and then leaching 20 grand a year in benefits.

We can't stop Brits doing this, but we damned well ought to be able top stop
foreigners doing it

tim

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...
On Sun, Aug 07, 2016 at 09:48:46AM +0100, tim... wrote:

They have the duties and obligations of a "business", these are
significantly greater than the duties of a private individual

Businesses are required to make reasonable adjustments for disabled
customers and employees.

They are not required to make unreasonable adjustments.

What adjustment do you have to make to carry a dog in your car FFS.

A rug on the back seat - job done

But (many of them) still refuse to do so

tim

In article , (tim...)
wrote:

"Someone Somewhere" wrote in message
...
On 11/08/2016 09:13, Robin9 wrote:

That Uber don't like these new requirements and have prepared
a ready-made email for their drivers to send to TfL indicates three
things:

1) A lot of Uber drivers don't speak English very well;
2) Taking back in house the testing of private hire drivers and
setting even a moderate standard will immediately reduce the
number of new entrants;
3) The propaganda put out by the "remain" group that all
immigrants working in this country were exceptionally gifted
people unmatched by any Briton was nonsense.

Why do we want less cabbies (of all types, including black and
private hire) anyway? Most other industries are left to set their
own level of employees and even where people are self-employed the
market is somewhat self-balancing.

because by being a self employed person and "earning" minimum wage
for the minimum number of hours, entitles you to in work benefits.

That may not be very much for as single guy, but bring your family
over and you soon get someone earning 8K a year, "contributing" 300
quid in NI and taxes and then leaching 20 grand a year in benefits.

We can't stop Brits doing this, but we damned well ought to be able
top stop foreigners doing it

20 grand in benefits? Where do you get that rubbish from? The Daily Mail or
The Sun?

--
Colin Rosenstiel