In message , at 11:34:49 on Mon, 29 Aug
2016, tim... remarked:

No, I was asking you for evidence that they were any worse than other
minicab firms. You alleged that they were, but with no evidence.

The evidence is that they argue that the rules don't apply to them
because they aren't a cab company, but a tech company (and as a new
start-up deserve special favours)

hat's true, and to some extent I can see their point - about being a
tech company.

eBay doesn't claim to be responsible for the regulatory compliance of
every item that their users put up for sale. It just puts buyers and
sellers in touch.

Having said that, they do have a rather long list of things you aren't
allowed to sell: including train tickets.

Uber's "problem", if we can call it that, is only having one product for
sale, and so people assume it's up to speed with the compliance of its
sellers.

On the other hand, such problems don't appear to affect TheTrainlne,
unless I've missed all the complaints that they refuse to pay
compensation when the train is late, or people don't get a seat.
--
Roland Perry

tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 06:57:05 on Mon, 29 Aug 2016, Recliner
remarked:
Unless there is some documentated verification by someone who is
blind
that
this is the case I'll take it with a pinch.

The evidence is the way the accessibility software exists (if it
didn't
work it would have been discontinued by now) and how Uber has a
document
explaining how to use it.

That's because it has been told to comply with ADA, not because a
single
person uses it.

http://www.recode.net/2015/9/18/1161...d-a-surprising

http://www.newmobility.com/2015/01/f...er-comply-ada/

https://www.ada.gov/briefs/uber_soi.pdf

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ply-to-us.html

Which of those say it's not used (I don't have time to read them all).

They don't day it isn't used (no-one seems to know). They do say Uber
claimed it didn't need to comply with ADA, but was forced to do so.

which kind of proves my earlier point, that you denied to the extent of
insulting me for believing it, that Uber's MO is to ignore compliance
with
local laws until forced to do so.

No, I was asking you for evidence that they were any worse than other
minicab firms. You alleged that they were, but with no evidence.

The evidence is that they argue that the rules don't apply to them because
they aren't a cab company, but a tech company (and as a new start-up deserve
special favours)

they aren't and they don't

They certainly try to argue that they are an agent for the self-employed
cab drivers, not a cab company. But do you have any examples of where
they've asked for special favours as a start-up?

Can you cite an example of Uber in this country
arguing that they are not a cab company and that the
rules about cabbing don't apply to them?

My impression has been that Uber have always insisted
that they are complying with all the rules and requirements.
TfL have confirmed that Uber are in compliance.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 12:13:12 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Uber's "problem", if we can call it that, is only having one product for
sale, and so people assume it's up to speed with the compliance of its
sellers.

On the other hand, such problems don't appear to affect TheTrainlne,
unless I've missed all the complaints that they refuse to pay
compensation when the train is late, or people don't get a seat.

I think the difference is that rail is very heavily regulated, and
although they might differ on how good their sites/apps are, all
retailers have to meet the same requirements and will know the rules
inside-out, including the various Delay Repay variants. For me, the
equivalent would be Uber only selling black cabs *and* there being an
established process for anyone selling those online.

I don't use Uber - if I need a taxi, it's always to Heathrow at an
appalling time and I use one of two very good local companies. If
there is to be a decline in the black cab trade in London, I'd be sad,
but can't quite put my finger on why. Expensive, but quality - known
the world over - and accessible to everyone. A symbol of the city.
Perhaps that's it... mostly emotion.

Richard.

On 17/08/2016 15:36, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 15:05:49 on Wed, 17 Aug
2016, tim... remarked:

With Uber, you have to have an account, before you can use it at all.
Cash isn't an option, and nor can you just order an Uber car without
first setting up an account.

You might just as well argue that there's a deterrent to using the
Dartford crossing as you (almost) can't pay for that without setting
up an account

If I can chip in here, yes that is deterrent. I've avoided it ever
since. On the other hand I used the M6 toll for the first time a couple
of months ago, and all you have to do is lean out of the car and use any
old contactless credit card.


Erm, it's not that difficult, really.

(1) Navigate oneself to...
https://www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge

(2) Click on "Start now" and be taken to...
https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Home/Choose

(3) Click on "Make a one off payment" and click on "Next"


It's not an ideal interface, but my principle complaint would be that
accessing an existing account isn't straightforward.

(An aside - the payments pages are labelled "Alpha", still - similar is
found elsewhere on GOV.UK. I think it's an inappropriate and misleading
use of the terminology, and one that won't be understood by many.)


Re the M6 toll - you almost make it sound like "any old contactless
credit card" is required... the staffed booths happily take a handful of
coins!

In message , at 23:42:45 on Tue, 13 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:

On 17/08/2016 15:36, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 15:05:49 on Wed, 17 Aug
2016, tim... remarked:

With Uber, you have to have an account, before you can use it at all.
Cash isn't an option, and nor can you just order an Uber car without
first setting up an account.

You might just as well argue that there's a deterrent to using the
Dartford crossing as you (almost) can't pay for that without setting
up an account

If I can chip in here, yes that is deterrent. I've avoided it ever
since. On the other hand I used the M6 toll for the first time a couple
of months ago, and all you have to do is lean out of the car and use any
old contactless credit card.


Erm, it's not that difficult, really.

(1) Navigate oneself to...
https://www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge

(2) Click on "Start now" and be taken to...
https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Home/Choose

(3) Click on "Make a one off payment" and click on "Next"

And carry on for several more screens entering various data.

Do they free wifi at the Eurotunnel holding pens, so you can do this
after arriving via Dartford? (Smartphone users only, need apply).

It's not an ideal interface, but my principle complaint would be that
accessing an existing account isn't straightforward.

(An aside - the payments pages are labelled "Alpha", still - similar is
found elsewhere on GOV.UK. I think it's an inappropriate and misleading
use of the terminology, and one that won't be understood by many.)

Re the M6 toll - you almost make it sound like "any old contactless
credit card" is required... the staffed booths happily take a handful
of coins!

I was surprised they had any manned booths, there's obviously a lot of
goat herders using the road.
--
Roland Perry

On 14/09/2016 09:17, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 23:42:45 on Tue, 13 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:
[...]

You might just as well argue that there's a deterrent to using the
Dartford crossing as you (almost) can't pay for that without setting
up an account

If I can chip in here, yes that is deterrent. I've avoided it ever
since. On the other hand I used the M6 toll for the first time a couple
of months ago, and all you have to do is lean out of the car and use any
old contactless credit card.

Erm, it's not that difficult, really.

(1) Navigate oneself to...
https://www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge

(2) Click on "Start now" and be taken to...
https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Home/Choose

(3) Click on "Make a one off payment" and click on "Next"

And carry on for several more screens entering various data.

Four screens by my count, with the following info requested:

(1) Enter vehicle reg number
(2) Confirm the vehicle make & model (no need to enter this, it's taken
from the DVLA database)
(3) Choose how many crossings you wish to pay for (they are valid for up
to a year)
(4) Enter and confirm email address for receipt
(5) Enter payment card details

They're not asking for anything more than the bare minimum of info
needed. It's much the same as paying the London CC charge.


Do they free wifi at the Eurotunnel holding pens, so you can do this
after arriving via Dartford? (Smartphone users only, need apply).

The terminal buildings have wifi, yes. Many/most smartphone users will
have a data allowance, and the mobile version of the Dart Charge website
is lightweight.

If that's all too hard, then there's the call centre - 0300 300 0120,
open 5am to midnight.


It's not an ideal interface, but my principle complaint would be that
accessing an existing account isn't straightforward.

(An aside - the payments pages are labelled "Alpha", still - similar
is found elsewhere on GOV.UK. I think it's an inappropriate and
misleading use of the terminology, and one that won't be understood by
many.)

Re the M6 toll - you almost make it sound like "any old contactless
credit card" is required... the staffed booths happily take a handful
of coins!

I was surprised they had any manned booths, there's obviously a lot of
goat herders using the road.


On the French autoroutes nowadays there seem to be few staffed booths,
though the automatic payment machines take notes and coins as well as
credit/debit cards (and I'm pretty sure they give change as well).

In message , at 10:00:38 on Wed, 14 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:
Erm, it's not that difficult, really.

(1) Navigate oneself to...
https://www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge

(2) Click on "Start now" and be taken to...
https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Home/Choose

(3) Click on "Make a one off payment" and click on "Next"

And carry on for several more screens entering various data.

Four screens by my count, with the following info requested:

(1) Enter vehicle reg number
(2) Confirm the vehicle make & model (no need to enter this, it's taken
from the DVLA database)
(3) Choose how many crossings you wish to pay for (they are valid for
up to a year)
(4) Enter and confirm email address for receipt
(5) Enter payment card details

They're not asking for anything more than the bare minimum of info
needed. It's much the same as paying the London CC charge.

I agree the London CC doesn't lend itself to contactless (leaning out of
your car on Park Lane at 40mph), but the palaver above is a monstrous
bit of cost externalisation and should never have been allowed.
--
Roland Perry

On 14/09/2016 10:23, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:00:38 on Wed, 14 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:
Erm, it's not that difficult, really.

(1) Navigate oneself to...
https://www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge

(2) Click on "Start now" and be taken to...
https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Home/Choose

(3) Click on "Make a one off payment" and click on "Next"

And carry on for several more screens entering various data.

Four screens by my count, with the following info requested:

(1) Enter vehicle reg number
(2) Confirm the vehicle make & model (no need to enter this, it's
taken from the DVLA database)
(3) Choose how many crossings you wish to pay for (they are valid for
up to a year)
(4) Enter and confirm email address for receipt
(5) Enter payment card details

They're not asking for anything more than the bare minimum of info
needed. It's much the same as paying the London CC charge.

I agree the London CC doesn't lend itself to contactless (leaning out of
your car on Park Lane at 40mph), but the palaver above is a monstrous
bit of cost externalisation and should never have been allowed.


The entire point of the exercise was not about cost externalisation but
improving traffic flow at the crossing - everything I've read and heard
suggests that this has essentially been successful, though 'sheer weight
of traffic' can't be solved by free flow tolling.

So I disagree with you. I do however think some aspects of the tolling
arrangements could be better, but the underlying concept of free flow
tolling at this crossing is sound. It works elsewhere just fine.

On 14.09.16 10:00, Mizter T wrote:

On 14/09/2016 09:17, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 23:42:45 on Tue, 13 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:
[...]

You might just as well argue that there's a deterrent to using the
Dartford crossing as you (almost) can't pay for that without setting
up an account

If I can chip in here, yes that is deterrent. I've avoided it ever
since. On the other hand I used the M6 toll for the first time a couple
of months ago, and all you have to do is lean out of the car and use
any
old contactless credit card.

Erm, it's not that difficult, really.

(1) Navigate oneself to...
https://www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge

(2) Click on "Start now" and be taken to...
https://www.dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/Home/Choose

(3) Click on "Make a one off payment" and click on "Next"

And carry on for several more screens entering various data.

Four screens by my count, with the following info requested:

(1) Enter vehicle reg number
(2) Confirm the vehicle make & model (no need to enter this, it's taken
from the DVLA database)
(3) Choose how many crossings you wish to pay for (they are valid for up
to a year)
(4) Enter and confirm email address for receipt
(5) Enter payment card details

They're not asking for anything more than the bare minimum of info
needed. It's much the same as paying the London CC charge.


Do they free wifi at the Eurotunnel holding pens, so you can do this
after arriving via Dartford? (Smartphone users only, need apply).

The terminal buildings have wifi, yes. Many/most smartphone users will
have a data allowance, and the mobile version of the Dart Charge website
is lightweight.

If that's all too hard, then there's the call centre - 0300 300 0120,
open 5am to midnight.


It's not an ideal interface, but my principle complaint would be that
accessing an existing account isn't straightforward.

(An aside - the payments pages are labelled "Alpha", still - similar
is found elsewhere on GOV.UK. I think it's an inappropriate and
misleading use of the terminology, and one that won't be understood by
many.)

Re the M6 toll - you almost make it sound like "any old contactless
credit card" is required... the staffed booths happily take a handful
of coins!

I was surprised they had any manned booths, there's obviously a lot of
goat herders using the road.


On the French autoroutes nowadays there seem to be few staffed booths,
though the automatic payment machines take notes and coins as well as
credit/debit cards (and I'm pretty sure they give change as well).


I imagine that those will eventually go, though there will likely be
lanes that lorries will have to go through at a lower speed for weight
measurement while a smart camera photographs the vehicle registration
plate.

I have heard of cases in the United States where all the infrastructure
is gone and they simply use smart cameras to photograph vehicles. Thus
negating the need for drivers to have a transponder of any sort and
slowing traffic.