bob wrote:
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 13:46:50 +0100
Recliner wrote:
I must admit I don't understand why Crossrail and the North Kent line
have separate island platforms, rather than having the Crossrail pair
between the third rail tracks, thus allowing cross-platform
interchanges. The down third rail track could have been re-routed to
the north of the portal, so that it was on the north, rather than the
south of the new Crossrail pair. With that arrangement, both down
tracks would flank one island platform, and both up platforms the
other. It would save a lot of passengers the hassle of having to cross
from island platform to the other.

Presumably that would require the crossrail tracks to cross the 3rd rail ones
complicating signalling, power supply isolation and causing potential hold
ups on both lines due to a problem on the other.

No it wouldn't. The Crossrail portal would be between the up and
(slewed-north) down third rail tracks. The Crossrail tracks would stay
between the third-rail tracks until the former's buffer stops at Abbey
Wood. Beyond Abbey Wood, the two third-rail tracks would come together
again and resume their former alignment towards Dartford. It would be a bit
like how the diesel track pops up between the two Central line tracks at
Greenford.

It's a while since I've been down that way. What is the Crossrail alignment
between Woolwich and Abbey Wood? For Crossrail to run between the 3rd rail
lines requires the Crossrail route to pass under a realigned down 3rd rail
line at some point, or if the Crossrail lines were run as the outer pair,
the westbound Crossrail line would need to pass under both 3rd rail lines.
Incidentally, how are the Crossrail lines named in terms of "up" and
"down"?

I've read that it will use Tube-like Eastbound and Westbound on its own
segregated tracks. Presumably it'll use the existing Up and Down terms on
shared tracks, like the GWML.

On 02/09/2016 22:13, Recliner wrote:
Incidentally, how are the Crossrail lines named in terms of "up" and
"down"?

I've read that it will use Tube-like Eastbound and Westbound on its own
segregated tracks. Presumably it'll use the existing Up and Down terms on
shared tracks, like the GWML.

That makes sense.

While it would be possible to change from Up to Down at (say) Pudding
Mill Lane portal, I doubt they want the risks of confusion.

Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
On 02/09/2016 22:13, Recliner wrote:
Incidentally, how are the Crossrail lines named in terms of "up" and
"down"?

I've read that it will use Tube-like Eastbound and Westbound on its own
segregated tracks. Presumably it'll use the existing Up and Down terms on
shared tracks, like the GWML.

That makes sense.

While it would be possible to change from Up to Down at (say) Pudding
Mill Lane portal, I doubt they want the risks of confusion.

If Crossrail does use Up and Down, I think Farringdon would be the datum
point, just as it is for Thameslink.

On 14.09.16 10:46, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
On 02/09/2016 22:13, Recliner wrote:
Incidentally, how are the Crossrail lines named in terms of "up" and
"down"?

I've read that it will use Tube-like Eastbound and Westbound on its own
segregated tracks. Presumably it'll use the existing Up and Down terms on
shared tracks, like the GWML.

That makes sense.

While it would be possible to change from Up to Down at (say) Pudding
Mill Lane portal, I doubt they want the risks of confusion.

Is that the way it works on Thameslink?

I notice that the starter at SPILL has a D theatre-light indication.
Does that indicate down?

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 17:23:40 +0100, "
wrote:

On 14.09.16 10:46, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
On 02/09/2016 22:13, Recliner wrote:
Incidentally, how are the Crossrail lines named in terms of "up" and
"down"?

I've read that it will use Tube-like Eastbound and Westbound on its own
segregated tracks. Presumably it'll use the existing Up and Down terms on
shared tracks, like the GWML.

That makes sense.

While it would be possible to change from Up to Down at (say) Pudding
Mill Lane portal, I doubt they want the risks of confusion.

Is that the way it works on Thameslink?

The KSW2 sectional appendix uses Up v Down for both sides away from
the zero point 4 chains north of Farringdon substation/62 chains south
of Farringdon station, at least for what little of the northerly route
(abutting LN3213) shows in SO280 of the Kent/Sussex/Wessex appendix.

http://www.ontracconnect.co.uk/files...20MCL.2970.pdf
[East Midlands route engineering arrangements WON 07 2015/2016]
also uses Up v Down for LN3213 Farringdon to Kentish Town junction.

I notice that the starter at SPILL has a D theatre-light indication.
Does that indicate down?

wrote:
On 14.09.16 10:46, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
On 02/09/2016 22:13, Recliner wrote:
Incidentally, how are the Crossrail lines named in terms of "up" and
"down"?

I've read that it will use Tube-like Eastbound and Westbound on its own
segregated tracks. Presumably it'll use the existing Up and Down terms on
shared tracks, like the GWML.

That makes sense.

While it would be possible to change from Up to Down at (say) Pudding
Mill Lane portal, I doubt they want the risks of confusion.

Is that the way it works on Thameslink?

I notice that the starter at SPILL has a D theatre-light indication.
Does that indicate down?

Farringdon is where an Up train becomes a Down train.

On 14/09/2016 18:23, wrote:
I notice that the starter at SPILL has a D theatre-light indication.
Does that indicate down?

It will mean "track D". What "track D" means will depend on the
location, and I don't have data for SPILL.

Very likely it means "Down Line", with "U" used if the train is being
switched to the Up Line. But if this is the northbound platform, it
might be some way of distinguishing Kentish Town from Finsbury Park. Or
something else.

The lines out of Euston are labelled A to E and every signal from Euston
to Camden Junction displays the letter of the line the train will be on
at the next signal, even if there's no choice.

While no example comes to mind immediately, I'm sure there is at least
one place where "D" is the initial of the destination. If the line
speeds were lower, Colton Junction could have used "D" for Doncaster and
"L" for Leeds.

On 15.09.16 9:28, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
On 14/09/2016 18:23, wrote:
I notice that the starter at SPILL has a D theatre-light indication.
Does that indicate down?

It will mean "track D". What "track D" means will depend on the
location, and I don't have data for SPILL.

Very likely it means "Down Line", with "U" used if the train is being
switched to the Up Line.

I believe the theatre lamps on SPILL Down indicate an X when crossing over.


But if this is the northbound platform, it
might be some way of distinguishing Kentish Town from Finsbury Park. Or
something else.

Possibly.

The lines out of Euston are labelled A to E and every signal from Euston
to Camden Junction displays the letter of the line the train will be on
at the next signal, even if there's no choice.

I'm not sure that I understood that?

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:23:41 +0100, "
wrote:

On 15.09.16 9:28, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
On 14/09/2016 18:23, wrote:
I notice that the starter at SPILL has a D theatre-light indication.
Does that indicate down?

It will mean "track D". What "track D" means will depend on the
location, and I don't have data for SPILL.

Very likely it means "Down Line", with "U" used if the train is being
switched to the Up Line.

I believe the theatre lamps on SPILL Down indicate an X when crossing over.


But if this is the northbound platform, it
might be some way of distinguishing Kentish Town from Finsbury Park. Or
something else.

Possibly.

The lines out of Euston are labelled A to E and every signal from Euston
to Camden Junction displays the letter of the line the train will be on
at the next signal, even if there's no choice.

I'm not sure that I understood that?

IIRC you will get successive signals on Camden Bank with no
intervening points thus no opportunity to change route.

On 15/09/2016 16:23, wrote:
Very likely it means "Down Line", with "U" used if the train is being
switched to the Up Line.
I believe the theatre lamps on SPILL Down indicate an X when crossing over.

Quite possibly. X is the standard notation for running "wrong line".

The lines out of Euston are labelled A to E and every signal from Euston
to Camden Junction displays the letter of the line the train will be on
at the next signal, even if there's no choice.

I'm not sure that I understood that?

Each line between Euston and Camden is lettered A to E.

A train departing Euston will pass 5 or 6 signals, including the
platform starter, in that length. Every one of those signals has a
theatre indicator showing one of those letters. This includes
straight-ahead routes and, in particular, includes those signals that
have no facing points before the next signal.

Consider the following (simplified) layout:

|-O 101 |-O 105
----------------*---------------- line A
|-O 203 \ |-O 207
------------------*-------------- line B

In a traditional layout (say the lines into and out of London Bridge):

101 to 105: plain signal, no theatre or feather
101 to 207: number 4 feather or theatre "B"
203 to 207: plain signal, no theatre or feather

Euston-style layout:

101 to 105: theatre "A"
101 to 207: theatre "B"
203 to 207: theatre "B"