On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:17:44 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:59:56 on
Wed, 12 Oct 2016, Recliner remarked:

many of the reports that I have read say that it is impossible use this MO
because the London mini-cab companies insist that you rent the car from them
when you drive for them. Your own car sits on your drive.

It almost certainly depends on the firm. I'm sure many of the drivers
are using their own cars.

One common business model is that you have to rent the 2-way radio from
the minicab firm (and that's a kind of "retainer fee" for the firm). Of
course, Uber has made those redundant.

I think they've been redundant for a while. I use minicabs 3 or 4 times a
year and I can't remember the last time I saw a 2 way radio in one. It was
mobile phones long before Uber came along.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:17:44 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:59:56 on
Wed, 12 Oct 2016, Recliner remarked:

many of the reports that I have read say that it is impossible use this MO
because the London mini-cab companies insist that you rent the car from them
when you drive for them. Your own car sits on your drive.

It almost certainly depends on the firm. I'm sure many of the drivers
are using their own cars.

One common business model is that you have to rent the 2-way radio from
the minicab firm (and that's a kind of "retainer fee" for the firm). Of
course, Uber has made those redundant.

I think they've been redundant for a while. I use minicabs 3 or 4 times a
year and I can't remember the last time I saw a 2 way radio in one. It was
mobile phones long before Uber came along.

Yes, same here.

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 15:23:31 on Wed, 12 Oct 2016, Recliner
remarked:
One common business model is that you have to rent the 2-way radio from
the minicab firm (and that's a kind of "retainer fee" for the firm). Of
course, Uber has made those redundant.

I think they've been redundant for a while. I use minicabs 3 or 4 times a
year and I can't remember the last time I saw a 2 way radio in one. It was
mobile phones long before Uber came along.

Yes, same here.

I've not been in a minicab for about six years, but the one up until
then had the 2-way radios.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:39:14 on Wed, 12 Oct 2016,
tim... remarked:

What do you call the referral bonus, paid for by Uber not the drivers,
if not a subsidy to the drivers fulfilling those trips?

so when I get a 20 quid M&S voucher for recommending my insurance company
(whoever) to a friend, that is a subsidy, is it?

No, because the insurance company buys them in bulk off M&S (at a discount
because many get lost/thrown away). To bribe people to refer insurance
customers - it's not M&S bribing the insurance company £20 to drum up more
M&S customers.

Uber taxi drivers don't buy the £15 vouchers and hand them to potential
new customers (thus reducing their first fare by £15). That £15 is paid by
Uber HQ, and is therefore a £15 subsidy to the driver accepting the
voucher.

Promotional marketing models not your strong point are they?

I understand that the vouchers work on the basis that not everyone will
spend them

But nevertheless the 15 pound "first ride free" is still a marketing cost,
not a driver subsidy.

How about "get your first 10 pound bet free" at the online bookies. Is that
a subsidy?

And I know that this is just a bait to get people hooked, but there is real
costs associated with it from the group of people who arbitrage that free
bet into real money and never come back (except for the next free bet
offer) - Go on MSN and you'll find a community discussing how to do this,
some report making several 100 a month this way (no I don't believe it
either).

tim

In message , at 10:28:37 on Thu, 13 Oct
2016, tim... remarked:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:39:14 on Wed, 12 Oct
2016, tim... remarked:

What do you call the referral bonus, paid for by Uber not the
drivers, if not a subsidy to the drivers fulfilling those trips?

so when I get a 20 quid M&S voucher for recommending my insurance
company (whoever) to a friend, that is a subsidy, is it?

No, because the insurance company buys them in bulk off M&S (at a
discount because many get lost/thrown away). To bribe people to refer
insurance customers - it's not M&S bribing the insurance company £20
to drum up more M&S customers.

Uber taxi drivers don't buy the £15 vouchers and hand them to
potential new customers (thus reducing their first fare by £15). That
£15 is paid by Uber HQ, and is therefore a £15 subsidy to the driver
accepting the voucher.

Promotional marketing models not your strong point are they?

I understand that the vouchers work on the basis that not everyone will
spend them

But nevertheless the 15 pound "first ride free" is still a marketing
cost, not a driver subsidy.

It's a marketing cost *to Uber*, and it arises from them subsidising the
*drivers* by £15 for that inaugural trip.

How about "get your first 10 pound bet free" at the online bookies. Is
that a subsidy?

I wouldn't use that word as it's entirely internal to the bookie site.

And I know that this is just a bait to get people hooked, but there is
real costs associated with it from the group of people who arbitrage
that free bet into real money and never come back (except for the next
free bet offer) - Go on MSN and you'll find a community discussing how
to do this, some report making several 100 a month this way (no I don't
believe it either).

There are people who claim to make thousands by signing up for, and then
reselling, Uber vouchers.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 11:36:50AM +0100, tim... wrote:
Many Uber drivers are also local minicab drivers. Some might also driver
for other apps. So the same car is used to generate more than one income
stream.

Whilst I have no personal knowledge of this, many of the reports that
I have read say that it is impossible use this MO because the London
mini-cab companies insist that you rent the car from them when you
drive for them.

If that were the case Uber wouldn't have been so cross about TfL's
proposal to make it much harder for a driver to work for multiple cab
companies. Not saying that it doesn't happen, but it clearly isn't the
case for all operators.

If you think about it - if cab companies owned (or even rented a fleet)
of cars and rented them out to drivers, those cars would have their
branding on. At least their name and phone number. That's rare in
London. Most mini-cabs have no branding on them at all.

--
David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive

comparative and superlative explained:

Huhn worse, worser, worsest, worsted, wasted

In message , at 16:57:38
on Mon, 17 Oct 2016, David Cantrell remarked:

If you think about it - if cab companies owned (or even rented a fleet)
of cars and rented them out to drivers, those cars would have their
branding on. At least their name and phone number. That's rare in
London. Most mini-cabs have no branding on them at all.

Addison Lee being one the few which do.
--
Roland Perry

Exactly. One of the very few.

With almost all minicab firms in London, the driver obtains
the car himself - by buying, by leasing, by renting on a
week-to-week basis - and the car is effectively his to work
with wherever and with whomever he wants.

In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:

*Subject:* Is Uber Bleeding to Death?
*From:* Robin9
*Date:* Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:00:55 +0200

Roland Perry;158741 Wrote:
In message , at
16:57:38 on Mon, 17 Oct 2016, David Cantrell
remarked:
-
If you think about it - if cab companies owned (or even rented a
fleet)
of cars and rented them out to drivers, those cars would have their
branding on. At least their name and phone number. That's rare in
London. Most mini-cabs have no branding on them at all.-

Addison Lee being one the few which do.

Exactly. One of the very few.

One of the few firms, sure, but what proportion of the hire cars?

With almost all minicab firms in London, the driver obtains
the car himself - by buying, by leasing, by renting on a
week-to-week basis - and the car is effectively his to work
with wherever and with whomever he wants.

How large are such fleets though?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Most minicab firms in London are quite small. The cab
firm at a suburban station may have only about forty
drivers. I've been told that Clarks at South Woodford
Station has about half that number and that Masons at
Woodford Station has about twice that number. There
is a handful of conventional cab firms - i.e. catering to
the general public on a cash basis - which are substantially
larger: e.g. Greyhound, The Keen Group, GLH.

There are also cab firms which deal exclusively with account
customers, 99 per cent of which are organisations. These cab
firms have their own fleet which their drivers have to use.
Addison Lee has an enormous account portfolio but also has
numerous cash customers. At one time they had about 1000
drivers, all using Addison Lee vehicles.

If there are 80,000 minicab drivers in London, even Addison
Lee's share is a small percentage.