wrote:
On 20.09.16 16:55, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
So, yet another all 'business class' (closer to premium economy) service
between a secondary London airport and New York has folded:

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...ight-canceled/

This must be at least the fourth or fifth all 'business' class service to
New York from Luton or Stansted to fail.

It's a business model that just can't work

there isn't enough customers to support 4 or 5 flights a day

and business people, mined to pay business class fares, aren't keen to fly
on an airline that has one flight a day (or less) because if it gets
cancelled they have a very expensive lost day.

The attraction with these services is that they're much cheaper than normal
business class flights. But there's really no other benefit. They're not as
good as proper business class, no frequent flyer programme, only one route,
with only one flight a day, etc.

But it also shows that the business market from London is primarily from
Heathrow, with a limited amount from Gatwick.

Well, that route is sort of going from Q to Z, when indeed you needed A
to B. Luton is a ways out, and Newark is not the closest to Manhattan.

Huh? Luton is hardly any further out than Gatwick, and Newark is the
nearest trans-Atlantic airport to Manhattan.

On 20/09/2016 23:07, Recliner wrote:

wrote:

Well, that route is sort of going from Q to Z, when indeed you needed A
to B. Luton is a ways out, and Newark is not the closest to Manhattan.

Huh? Luton is hardly any further out than Gatwick, and Newark is the
nearest trans-Atlantic airport to Manhattan.


Indeed. A friend who does this with some regularity prefers a Newark
arrival over JFK.

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
So, yet another all 'business class' (closer to premium economy) service
between a secondary London airport and New York has folded:

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...ight-canceled/

This must be at least the fourth or fifth all 'business' class service
to
New York from Luton or Stansted to fail.

It's a business model that just can't work

there isn't enough customers to support 4 or 5 flights a day

and business people, mined to pay business class fares, aren't keen to
fly
on an airline that has one flight a day (or less) because if it gets
cancelled they have a very expensive lost day.

The attraction with these services is that they're much cheaper than
normal
business class flights. But there's really no other benefit. They're not
as
good as proper business class, no frequent flyer programme, only one
route,
with only one flight a day, etc.

But it also shows that the business market from London is primarily from
Heathrow, with a limited amount from Gatwick.

I think it does nothing of the sort

It shows that price isn't compelling enough for the other disadvantages
(which as you say, are many)

Consider the market for this type of service.

Is it people who are paying the fare themselves (which may include small
business owners), are they getting any benefit for the two, three times
(whatever) over booking economy with a major airline? All they seem to be
getting is a bigger seat and perhaps better food. Is this enough?

I think this was intended as the primary market, but as you say, it
probably wasn't enough. Also, some of the less obvious airlines (eg, Air
India) offer very cheap deals on business class seats on the well-served
LON-NYC route.


Business people whose companies have entitled them to buy business class
tickets. Are they getting anything back from (from their company) by
booking a business class fare that is half the price of a normal business
class fare? My guess - no.

I agree.


Are there companies out there who will let their staff travel on these
business class only flights but not business class on a normal airline?
Perhaps, but as per my previous post, not once one of their staff has been
rendered inoperative by a flight cancellation, they will soon go back to
booking major airlines, with alternative flight options once that happens

I think it's worse than that. Larger companies already have relationships
with favoured airlines, and if they offer flights on a particular route,
other airlines wouldn't even be considered. Through the magic of
code-sharing, most major airlines have a LON-NYC offering, so it's hard for
an outsider to get a look-in.

On 2016-09-20 22:07:54 +0000, Recliner said:

Huh? Luton is hardly any further out than Gatwick, and Newark is the
nearest trans-Atlantic airport to Manhattan.

A lot of people are put off Luton by the bus connection, sufficiently
so that LBC are looking at building some kind of rail shuttle thing.
Which is actually counterintuitive, as to some gates at Gatwick you
walk almost as far as the bus goes (well, probably not quite, but it
feels like it), there's the inter-terminal train, and at Luton bags are
returned far, far quicker than any other significantly sized airport
(the reason for which is the simplicity of the baggage system - it just
involves two blokes and a flatbed Transit).

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2016-09-20 22:11:44 +0000, Mizter T said:

Indeed. A friend who does this with some regularity prefers a Newark
arrival over JFK.

And Luton is better connected to the City than Heathrow. Though the
perception of "rubbish charter airport" is hard to kill, particularly
at present as due to expansion work it is quite rubbish (be nice when
it's done though).

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 08:35:52 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-09-20 22:07:54 +0000, Recliner said:

Huh? Luton is hardly any further out than Gatwick, and Newark is the
nearest trans-Atlantic airport to Manhattan.

A lot of people are put off Luton by the bus connection, sufficiently
so that LBC are looking at building some kind of rail shuttle thing.

LBC? Wow, Global Radio really are expanding their remit

Not sure how a rail shuttle would work unless its a cog railway given how
much higher the airport is compared to the MML.

feels like it), there's the inter-terminal train, and at Luton bags are
returned far, far quicker than any other significantly sized airport
(the reason for which is the simplicity of the baggage system - it just
involves two blokes and a flatbed Transit).

Last time I used Luton was 2013 and it seemed pretty well managed on the
way out. On the way back was a different story however - a mile long walk to
security up and down stairs from the gate, followed by no information at
baggage collection for about 15 mins followed by bags coming out in dribs and
drabs for the next 20 mins. And this IIRC was in April, hardly peak holiday
season.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 08:35:52 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-09-20 22:07:54 +0000, Recliner said:

Huh? Luton is hardly any further out than Gatwick, and Newark is the
nearest trans-Atlantic airport to Manhattan.

A lot of people are put off Luton by the bus connection, sufficiently
so that LBC are looking at building some kind of rail shuttle thing.

LBC? Wow, Global Radio really are expanding their remit

Not sure how a rail shuttle would work unless its a cog railway given how
much higher the airport is compared to the MML.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...rack-rail-link

On 2016-09-21 08:24:37 +0000, d said:

LBC? Wow, Global Radio really are expanding their remit

Luton Borough Council, the owners of the airport (though they
subcontract its operation).

Not sure how a rail shuttle would work unless its a cog railway given how
much higher the airport is compared to the MML.

It will most probably be a rubber tyred people mover of some kind, like
the Gatwick or Birmingham ones.

Last time I used Luton was 2013 and it seemed pretty well managed on the
way out. On the way back was a different story however - a mile long walk to
security up and down stairs from the gate, followed by no information at
baggage collection for about 15 mins followed by bags coming out in dribs and
drabs for the next 20 mins. And this IIRC was in April, hardly peak holiday
season.

Sounds like a particularly bad day. The walk from some gates can be a
*bit* long but it's nothing on Gatwick, nor have I ever known any
airport as slow with bags as Gatwick (or Stansted).

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 08:39:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 08:35:52 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-09-20 22:07:54 +0000, Recliner said:

Huh? Luton is hardly any further out than Gatwick, and Newark is the
nearest trans-Atlantic airport to Manhattan.

A lot of people are put off Luton by the bus connection, sufficiently
so that LBC are looking at building some kind of rail shuttle thing.

LBC? Wow, Global Radio really are expanding their remit

Not sure how a rail shuttle would work unless its a cog railway given how
much higher the airport is compared to the MML.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ds-bus-transfe
s-fast-track-rail-link

"a £200m light rail link"

"The 1.3-mile link will be funded by Luton borough council"

Where exactly is a local council going to find 200m from these days? Either
they've got some private investment lined up or its pie in the sky BS.o

Also its somewhat iconic given how luton couldn't wait to rip up the railway
to Dumpstable and install some mickey mouse busway in its place. I'm guessing
the leadership must have changed.

--
Spud

On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 09:23:02 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 08:39:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 08:35:52 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-09-20 22:07:54 +0000, Recliner said:

Huh? Luton is hardly any further out than Gatwick, and Newark is the
nearest trans-Atlantic airport to Manhattan.

A lot of people are put off Luton by the bus connection, sufficiently
so that LBC are looking at building some kind of rail shuttle thing.

LBC? Wow, Global Radio really are expanding their remit

Not sure how a rail shuttle would work unless its a cog railway given how
much higher the airport is compared to the MML.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ds-bus-transfe
s-fast-track-rail-link

"a £200m light rail link"

"The 1.3-mile link will be funded by Luton borough council"

Where exactly is a local council going to find 200m from these days? Either
they've got some private investment lined up or its pie in the sky BS.o

I assume it'll be externally funded, with the cost being repaid from
the airport's revenues or fares on the rail link.