tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:09:54 on Wed, 21 Sep
2016, d remarked:
I first started to always try to work with carry on only after a trip on
the
Manchester shuttle to LHR.

I waited 45 minutes for my bag to appear and when it did it was one a a
total of 3 that the flight had carried!

By implication that means a lot of people on that flight were actually
visiting London.

The exact opposite. Most of the people on the flight will have been
connecting to another, with their bags checked through. That's the main
purpose of the Manchester flights.

Not really

Back in the day it was definitely a point to point route.

Companies would buy carnets of tickets and you just turned up with one at
the desk 20 minutes before and walked on (well in theory, anyway).

I guess that this MO got killed by the need to add on an extra hour for
security clearance meaning that the time saving over the train to London
disappeared for all but a small number of final destinations.

I think the other problem was the need to have a spare aircraft on standby
at each Shuttle base, and sometimes to fly them almost empty. I'm not sure
security took much longer in the 1990s than the 1980s. Even now, it only
takes a few minutes.

On 2016-09-22 15:05:58 +0000, tim... said:

I guess that this MO got killed by the need to add on an extra hour for
security clearance meaning that the time saving over the train to
London disappeared for all but a small number of final destinations.

London to Manchester flights in general have been hit very hard by the
high speed and high frequency of the WCML service - VT near enough have
the non-car market sewn up. Unless I lived in south Manchester and was
travelling to west London (or vice versa), or was connecting onto
long-haul, I can't see why I would even consider air for that journey.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 16:05:58 on Thu, 22 Sep
2016, tim... remarked:
I first started to always try to work with carry on only after a
trip on the
Manchester shuttle to LHR.

I waited 45 minutes for my bag to appear and when it did it was one a a
total of 3 that the flight had carried!

By implication that means a lot of people on that flight were actually
visiting London.

The exact opposite. Most of the people on the flight will have been
connecting to another, with their bags checked through. That's the
main purpose of the Manchester flights.

Not really

Yes, really. BA even produced stats which proved it.

Back in the day it was definitely a point to point route.

Companies would buy carnets of tickets and you just turned up with one
at the desk 20 minutes before and walked on (well in theory, anyway).

Some companies and some people. Not a high proportion of each planeload
though.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 21:12:38 on Thu, 22
Sep 2016, Neil Williams remarked:

I guess that this MO got killed by the need to add on an extra hour
for security clearance meaning that the time saving over the train to
London disappeared for all but a small number of final destinations.

London to Manchester flights in general have been hit very hard by the
high speed and high frequency of the WCML service - VT near enough have
the non-car market sewn up. Unless I lived in south Manchester and was
travelling to west London (or vice versa), or was connecting onto
long-haul, I can't see why I would even consider air for that journey.

One reason is price.
--
Roland Perry

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On 2016-09-22 15:05:58 +0000, tim... said:

I guess that this MO got killed by the need to add on an extra hour for
security clearance meaning that the time saving over the train to London
disappeared for all but a small number of final destinations.

London to Manchester flights in general have been hit very hard by the
high speed and high frequency of the WCML service - VT near enough have
the non-car market sewn up.

Well the frequency might be a bit better

but the speed hasn't improved much

ISTR it taking about 2:40 at the time, a reduction to 2:10 is hardly enough
to scoop up the market against a 30 minute flight time

No, as I said before, it's the need to arrive at the airport significantly
earlier, thus increasing total travel time buy plane that's killed it

tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 16:05:58 on Thu, 22 Sep 2016,
tim... remarked:
I first started to always try to work with carry on only after a trip
on the
Manchester shuttle to LHR.

I waited 45 minutes for my bag to appear and when it did it was one a a
total of 3 that the flight had carried!

By implication that means a lot of people on that flight were actually
visiting London.

The exact opposite. Most of the people on the flight will have been
connecting to another, with their bags checked through. That's the main
purpose of the Manchester flights.

Not really

Yes, really. BA even produced stats which proved it.

come on Roland,.

You know better than to make sweeping claims like that without any proof

tim

On 2016-09-23 09:59:00 +0000, tim... said:

ISTR it taking about 2:40 at the time, a reduction to 2:10 is hardly
enough to scoop up the market against a 30 minute flight time

It isn't a 30 minute flight time in any useful sense. Realistically it
involves arriving about an hour before the flight (as has long been the
case), and needs to include getting into central London as that is
where most people are going to be going. That means in practice a
journey time of around two and a half hours. Thus the difference
between 2:40 and 2:10 is very, very significant, as it is the change
that tips the balance. That between 2:10 and 1:50, say, would be much
less so.

No, as I said before, it's the need to arrive at the airport
significantly earlier, thus increasing total travel time buy plane
that's killed it

That has not changed - most times I've flown recently from a proper
airport (not Stansted) I have waited no longer than about 5 minutes for
security. Stansted is mismanaged, but also is not of any relevance to
BA flights from Manchester to London.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 11:22:48 on Fri, 23
Sep 2016, Neil Williams remarked:
ISTR it taking about 2:40 at the time, a reduction to 2:10 is hardly
enough to scoop up the market against a 30 minute flight time

It isn't a 30 minute flight time in any useful sense. Realistically it
involves arriving about an hour before the flight (as has long been the
case), and needs to include getting into central London as that is
where most people are going to be going.

Most of the people on the Manchester flight are going to another gate at
Heathrow.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:59:40 on Fri, 23 Sep
2016, tim... remarked:
The exact opposite. Most of the people on the flight will have been
connecting to another, with their bags checked through. That's the
main purpose of the Manchester flights.

Not really

Yes, really. BA even produced stats which proved it.

come on Roland,.

You know better than to make sweeping claims like that without any
proof

Willie Walsh, 26th June 2008:

"... explained that on Heathrow flights to and from Manchester, 75% of
passengers were transferring. On services to and from Leeds/Bradford,
Newcastle and Tees-side, the proportion was between 55% and 60%.
On flights to and from Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen, transfer
traffic accounted for nearly half of all passengers."

ps. Does that mean you are on my side in that other place where there's
a disagreement over whether "no cite = you lose" or not?

--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:59:40 on Fri, 23 Sep 2016,
tim... remarked:
The exact opposite. Most of the people on the flight will have been
connecting to another, with their bags checked through. That's the
main purpose of the Manchester flights.

Not really

Yes, really. BA even produced stats which proved it.

come on Roland,.

You know better than to make sweeping claims like that without any proof

Willie Walsh, 26th June 2008:

That's well after the increased time for security clearance introduced after
9/11 (amongst other incidents) which, as I have already said, probably
killed the walk up point to point usage.

I am going back to 1987 when you just walked through the security line
without a boarding card.

tim