In message , at 20:03:11 on
Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Charles Ellson remarked:

Today, the British have nowhere near enough medics. The Cubans have a
large surplus. Either this is the result of the policies outlined, or
the British middle and working classes are significantly less educable
than Cuban peasants, while the British ruling caste is more interested
in going into banking or politics than into medicine.

It's probably because the ones in Cuba are paid minimum wage

Something still not universally applied to workers in the UK ?

Cuba's *average* wage in the public sector is $20 per month.

Minimum wage $9 per month.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 20:10:32 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:

Yes, I know that we can enforce a set of minimum conditions, but
experience is that it is hard for TPTB to enforce them. IMHO it's oh so
much easier to make sure that conditions improve by taking away the
supply of workers willing to work like slaves.

Unless, of course, freeing ourselves from Brussels Red Tape allows us to
have even worse minimum conditions.

which I believe that it wont

come back in 10 years to prove me wrong

Yawn.

well it was your decision to rerun a discussion we have already had

tim

On 09/11/2016 20:06, ColinR wrote:
On 09/11/2016 19:52, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/11/2016 19:40, ColinR wrote:
On 09/11/2016 16:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/11/2016 15:40, Graham Murray wrote:
Graeme Wall writes:

On 09/11/2016 14:27, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:16:41 on Wed, 9 Nov
2016,
Graeme Wall remarked:

Where have we got immigrants working in factories here?

Where have we got factories here?

There are at least two Sugar Beet factories (so called) in the Fens,
and
just round the corner from me is an agricultural equipment factory
(ironically, perhaps, mainly "automatic" crop-picking/harvesting
machines to tow behind tractors).

I was being slightly sarcastic, we used to have three major factories
here in Southampton, all now gone, Vosper-Thorneycroft, Ford and BAT.

Do not forget Pirelli, or was that not major?


They'd gone by the time I moved here, they lingered at Eastleigh for
quite a long time. IKEA now occupies part of their site.


I did a summer's job experience at Pirelli - many many years ago!


Used to get cable-layers in the docks, presumably loading up with fresh
cable.



Worked on them as well, but the BT vessels were primarily engaged in
repairs, not laying, only one of the vessels was designed as a layer.


Iris and Sovereign are the two I remember seeing.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 20:19:26 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 20:03:11 on
Wed, 9 Nov 2016, Charles Ellson remarked:

Today, the British have nowhere near enough medics. The Cubans have a
large surplus. Either this is the result of the policies outlined, or
the British middle and working classes are significantly less educable
than Cuban peasants, while the British ruling caste is more interested
in going into banking or politics than into medicine.

It's probably because the ones in Cuba are paid minimum wage

Something still not universally applied to workers in the UK ?

Cuba's *average* wage in the public sector is $20 per month.

Minimum wage $9 per month.

Apparently the actual amount depends on who you ask and as a bald
figure (possibly now 2y out of date) ignores relative
income/expenditure and local cost of living but still arrives at a
rather more modest income than experienced in the UK.
As recent and past court/tribunal cases have shown, there are still
plenty of employers in the UK trying an assortment of methods to avoid
paying the minimum hourly wage.

On 09/11/2016 21:01, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/11/2016 20:06, ColinR wrote:
On 09/11/2016 19:52, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/11/2016 19:40, ColinR wrote:
On 09/11/2016 16:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/11/2016 15:40, Graham Murray wrote:
Graeme Wall writes:

On 09/11/2016 14:27, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:16:41 on Wed, 9 Nov
2016,
Graeme Wall remarked:

Where have we got immigrants working in factories here?

Where have we got factories here?

There are at least two Sugar Beet factories (so called) in the
Fens,
and
just round the corner from me is an agricultural equipment factory
(ironically, perhaps, mainly "automatic" crop-picking/harvesting
machines to tow behind tractors).

I was being slightly sarcastic, we used to have three major
factories
here in Southampton, all now gone, Vosper-Thorneycroft, Ford and
BAT.

Do not forget Pirelli, or was that not major?


They'd gone by the time I moved here, they lingered at Eastleigh for
quite a long time. IKEA now occupies part of their site.


I did a summer's job experience at Pirelli - many many years ago!


Used to get cable-layers in the docks, presumably loading up with fresh
cable.



Worked on them as well, but the BT vessels were primarily engaged in
repairs, not laying, only one of the vessels was designed as a layer.


Iris and Sovereign are the two I remember seeing.


The third one was CS Alert - all could lay and maintain cables, but
generally Iris and sovereign did the repairs. CS Alert was
diesel-electric - all DC with lovely bakelite switchgear - BIG switches!

Colin

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 21:38:57 +0000, ColinR
wrote:

On 09/11/2016 21:01, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/11/2016 20:06, ColinR wrote:
On 09/11/2016 19:52, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/11/2016 19:40, ColinR wrote:
On 09/11/2016 16:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/11/2016 15:40, Graham Murray wrote:
Graeme Wall writes:

On 09/11/2016 14:27, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:16:41 on Wed, 9 Nov
2016,
Graeme Wall remarked:

Where have we got immigrants working in factories here?

Where have we got factories here?

There are at least two Sugar Beet factories (so called) in the
Fens,
and
just round the corner from me is an agricultural equipment factory
(ironically, perhaps, mainly "automatic" crop-picking/harvesting
machines to tow behind tractors).

I was being slightly sarcastic, we used to have three major
factories
here in Southampton, all now gone, Vosper-Thorneycroft, Ford and
BAT.

Do not forget Pirelli, or was that not major?


They'd gone by the time I moved here, they lingered at Eastleigh for
quite a long time. IKEA now occupies part of their site.


I did a summer's job experience at Pirelli - many many years ago!


Used to get cable-layers in the docks, presumably loading up with fresh
cable.



Worked on them as well, but the BT vessels were primarily engaged in
repairs, not laying, only one of the vessels was designed as a layer.


Iris and Sovereign are the two I remember seeing.


The third one was CS Alert

1961-1995, which was the fourth to carry that name -
http://atlantic-cable.com/Cableships/Alert/
http://atlantic-cable.com//Cableships/index.htm

- all could lay and maintain cables, but
generally Iris and sovereign did the repairs. CS Alert was
diesel-electric - all DC with lovely bakelite switchgear - BIG switches!

Colin

Charles Ellson wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 17:39:42 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:


"Mark Bestley" wrote in message
. ..
Graeme Wall wrote:

On 09/11/2016 13:49, Mark Bestley wrote:
tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... In message
, at 11:41:26 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked: Loads of low paid
workers coming in from the East forcing down wages for the
indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their
staff training schemes which would otherwise help increase the
averages skill set of the population)
What trainable skills do you need to pick vegetables in the fields?

How to wrap up warm, perhaps.

I was think more along the lines of people who worked in factories


Where have we got immigrants working in factories here?


Where have we got factories here?

Well tyhat was the next question for tim

10% of our economy is still in manufacturing

Of which how much is dependent upon foreign-owned companies having
free access (in both directions) to the EU ?

and of these hoiw many are using non UK employees?

--
Mark

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 19:47:10 +0000, Charles Ellson wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 11:42:30 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:


wrote in message
news
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:52:13 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



I see that you snipped the bit where I explained that that is not caused
by
the actual act of leaving but by the Remoaners not accepting the
situation,

The people who have not "accepted the situation" are the Brexiteers
who organised the Leave campaign based greatly on fear and loathing of
foreigners and who promptly buggered off and left others to clear up
the resultant mess when the vote actually went their way.

What nonsense. "Brexit" is not about "fear and loathing of foreigners" but about reverting to being
self-governing like most other countries in the world. Also the exit process is being deliberately
drawn out by the current PM who was a Remainer. Had the government started the exit process
straight away, as Cameron said he would during the campaign, we could have the whole thing sewn up
in months not years.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 23:19:51 +0000, Optimist
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 19:47:10 +0000, Charles Ellson wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 11:42:30 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:


wrote in message
news On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:52:13 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



I see that you snipped the bit where I explained that that is not caused
by
the actual act of leaving but by the Remoaners not accepting the
situation,

The people who have not "accepted the situation" are the Brexiteers
who organised the Leave campaign based greatly on fear and loathing of
foreigners and who promptly buggered off and left others to clear up
the resultant mess when the vote actually went their way.

What nonsense. "Brexit" is not about "fear and loathing of foreigners"

You missed the many people being interviewed on the television who
clearly weren't bothered about much else ?

but about reverting to being self-governing like most other countries in the world.

So why are Brexiteers banging on about getting stuck into trade deals
which will shackle us to the USA ? At least that's the Brexiteers who
actually want to get involved unlike those who left it to others to
clear up after them.

Also the exit process is being deliberately
drawn out by the current PM who was a Remainer. Had the government started the exit process
straight away, as Cameron said he would during the campaign, we could have the whole thing sewn up
in months not years.

Not possible with all the treaties etc. which have to be undone or
re-arranged.

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 22:17:37 +0000, (Mark Bestley)
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 17:39:42 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:


"Mark Bestley" wrote in message
. ..
Graeme Wall wrote:

On 09/11/2016 13:49, Mark Bestley wrote:
tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... In message
, at 11:41:26 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked: Loads of low paid
workers coming in from the East forcing down wages for the
indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their
staff training schemes which would otherwise help increase the
averages skill set of the population)
What trainable skills do you need to pick vegetables in the fields?

How to wrap up warm, perhaps.

I was think more along the lines of people who worked in factories


Where have we got immigrants working in factories here?


Where have we got factories here?

Well tyhat was the next question for tim

10% of our economy is still in manufacturing

Of which how much is dependent upon foreign-owned companies having
free access (in both directions) to the EU ?

and of these hoiw many are using non UK employees?

Probably all of them, just like most companies which don't depend on
free access but who don't wish to employ inefficient natives.