On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 11:41:26 -0000
"tim..." wrote:
Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages for the
indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their staff
training schemes which would otherwise help increase the averages skill set
of the population)

Ditto NHS. Lots of cheap labour from abroad allowed both labour and tories to
cut medical training in the UK. Of course the clueless remoaners seem to think
that foreign labour is essential for the NHS rather than being a deliberate
- albeit never publicised - government policy for decades.

--
Spud

In message , at 12:01:17 on Wed, 9 Nov
2016, d remarked:
Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages for the
indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their staff
training schemes which would otherwise help increase the averages skill set
of the population)

Ditto NHS. Lots of cheap labour from abroad allowed both labour and tories to
cut medical training in the UK. Of course the clueless remoaners seem to think
that foreign labour is essential for the NHS rather than being a deliberate
- albeit never publicised - government policy for decades.

It's about asking the right questions. We've not had a referendum to ask
people whether they'd prefer 2p on income tax or more UK-trained doctors
and nurses. So we leave it to politicians and election manifestos.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/11/2016 11:41, tim... wrote:

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2016 08:43, tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 21:06:43 on Tue, 8
Nov 2016, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

since Norway and Switzerland have rejected political union, a similar
mini-Brexit to retain zero tariffs, freedom of business
establishment, and free movement of labour just like them would be
acceptable.

On one hand they don't have all the free tariffs, on the other hand
they have to comply with European Directives without having had a say
in their drafting.

Yep,

I really don't see what the advantages (over the option of full
membership) from the Norway/Switzerland option are. For Norway, it
gives them control of their fisheries, which I guess, given the relative
minuteness of their whole economy, makes the crucial difference. But
what does CH get from their "non-membership"?

OTOH, I can see some advantages from remaining in the Customs Union
(whilst leaving the single market). Whilst it does still require us to
follow EU rules and places limits on opportunities to make our own trade
deals (lest these deals should enable other countries to get into the EU
via a back door), it does at least, not come with the requirement of
free movement


And the problem with free movement is?

Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages for
the indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their staff
training schemes which would otherwise help increase the averages skill
set of the population)


ONS figures show the opposite. Employment reached the highest level
since the banking crisis just before the referendum and wage rates show
a 4% increase in industries with a high proportion of immigrant labour.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 09/11/2016 12:13, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:01:17 on Wed, 9 Nov
2016, d remarked:
Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages
for the
indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their staff
training schemes which would otherwise help increase the averages
skill set
of the population)

Ditto NHS. Lots of cheap labour from abroad allowed both labour and
tories to
cut medical training in the UK. Of course the clueless remoaners seem
to think
that foreign labour is essential for the NHS rather than being a
deliberate
- albeit never publicised - government policy for decades.

It's about asking the right questions. We've not had a referendum to ask
people whether they'd prefer 2p on income tax or more UK-trained doctors
and nurses. So we leave it to politicians and election manifestos.

IIRC the Libdems tried that once with predictable results.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:41:26 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:
Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages for
the indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their staff
training schemes which would otherwise help increase the averages skill
set of the population)

What trainable skills do you need to pick vegetables in the fields?

How to wrap up warm, perhaps.

I was think more along the lines of people who worked in factories

It used to be that people who worked on the shop floor today, could aspire
to becoming supervisors tomorrow

not any more

tim

On Tue, 08 Nov 2016 18:54:51 -0600, wrote:

In article ,
(Arthur Figgis) wrote:

On 08/11/2016 18:57, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/11/2016 18:27, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 08/11/2016 13:04, Graeme Wall wrote:

And what exactly is the British "way of life"? Xenophobia,
Homophobia, idolatory of whatever our American masters dictate?

People often forget that Britain (well, England) is unique in not
having a way of life. After all, it is just "normal", while everything
else is exciting and "other" in comparison.

Just as everyone else has accents and are natives.

I find that travelling to places like Germany, Scandinavian and
Scotland, there is a perception amongst a surprising number of the
kind of people one meets in pubs that England does indeed lack
natives. This leads to some strange assumptions, particularly with
regard to life in contemporary London...

They're not entirely wrong. There are no indigenous English. Everyone here
is descended from immigrants, even if from many centuries ago.

Indeed, we are all Africans.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 13:02:22 +0000
Optimist wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2016 18:54:51 -0600, wrote:

In article ,
(Arthur Figgis) wrote:

On 08/11/2016 18:57, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/11/2016 18:27, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 08/11/2016 13:04, Graeme Wall wrote:

And what exactly is the British "way of life"? Xenophobia,
Homophobia, idolatory of whatever our American masters dictate?

People often forget that Britain (well, England) is unique in not
having a way of life. After all, it is just "normal", while everything
else is exciting and "other" in comparison.

Just as everyone else has accents and are natives.

I find that travelling to places like Germany, Scandinavian and
Scotland, there is a perception amongst a surprising number of the
kind of people one meets in pubs that England does indeed lack
natives. This leads to some strange assumptions, particularly with
regard to life in contemporary London...

They're not entirely wrong. There are no indigenous English. Everyone here
is descended from immigrants, even if from many centuries ago.

Indeed, we are all Africans.

That whole line of descent argument is fatuous. If you take it to its logical
conclusion we're all descended from bacteria. So what? There are indigenous
English as much as there are indigenous peoples of any country and
unsurprisingly you tend to find the people who claim otherwise are usually
descended from recent immigrants, presumably as a way to make themselves feel
less "other".

--
Spud

In message , at 12:57:04 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:
Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages
for the indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband
their staff training schemes which would otherwise help increase the
averages skill set of the population)

What trainable skills do you need to pick vegetables in the fields?

How to wrap up warm, perhaps.

I was think more along the lines of people who worked in factories

It used to be that people who worked on the shop floor today, could
aspire to becoming supervisors tomorrow

not any more

All the supervisors are foreigners?
--
Roland Perry

tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:41:26 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:
Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages for
the indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their staff
training schemes which would otherwise help increase the averages skill
set of the population)

What trainable skills do you need to pick vegetables in the fields?

How to wrap up warm, perhaps.

I was think more along the lines of people who worked in factories


Where have we got immigrants working in factories here?

It used to be that people who worked on the shop floor today, could aspire
to becoming supervisors tomorrow

not any more

tim




--
Mark

On 09/11/2016 12:57, tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:41:26 on Wed, 9 Nov
2016, tim... remarked:
Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages
for the indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband
their staff training schemes which would otherwise help increase the
averages skill set of the population)

What trainable skills do you need to pick vegetables in the fields?

How to wrap up warm, perhaps.

I was think more along the lines of people who worked in factories

It used to be that people who worked on the shop floor today, could
aspire to becoming supervisors tomorrow

not any more


What's stopping them?


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.