On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 11:43:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 10:06:07 on Thu, 24 Nov 2016, Recliner
remarked:

Incidentally, although the Piccadilly line is largely above ground from
Baron's Court, it's largely on viaducts rather than cuttings, so it
shouldn't be affected very much by leaf fall.

And the branch to Uxbridge, and the part in North London?

Very little of the eastern end is not underground.

The Acton Town to Rayner's Lane section is on viaducts from Park Royal most
of the way to Sudbury Town, where it's at ground level. It's then in a
shallow cutting till after Sudbury Hill, after which it's back on viaducts
to Rayner's Lane. It's then a mixture, but I can't think of any deep
cuttings on the rest of the route to Uxbridge. Remember that all of these
lines were built by the Met and District lines, rather than Tube railway
companies, and they preferred to build on or above ground level in the then
largely rural areas.

Given the service level of the piccadilly line on the uxbridge branch when I
occasionally used it while working in ealing a few years back, I suspect most
leaves on the line have a fairly undisturbed quiet life.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 11:43:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 10:06:07 on Thu, 24 Nov 2016, Recliner
remarked:

Incidentally, although the Piccadilly line is largely above ground from
Baron's Court, it's largely on viaducts rather than cuttings, so it
shouldn't be affected very much by leaf fall.

And the branch to Uxbridge, and the part in North London?

Very little of the eastern end is not underground.

The Acton Town to Rayner's Lane section is on viaducts from Park Royal most
of the way to Sudbury Town, where it's at ground level. It's then in a
shallow cutting till after Sudbury Hill, after which it's back on viaducts
to Rayner's Lane. It's then a mixture, but I can't think of any deep
cuttings on the rest of the route to Uxbridge. Remember that all of these
lines were built by the Met and District lines, rather than Tube railway
companies, and they preferred to build on or above ground level in the then
largely rural areas.

Given the service level of the piccadilly line on the uxbridge branch when I
occasionally used it while working in ealing a few years back, I suspect most
leaves on the line have a fairly undisturbed quiet life.

Well, that's certainly true today -- this is what was tweeted this morning:
"Due to shortage of serviceable trains there will be no service between
Acton Town and Uxbridge."

And from the web site:
"Piccadilly Line: No service between Acton Town and Uxbridge due to a
shortage of trains. SEVERE DELAYS on the rest of the line. Customers
travelling to stations between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge should use
Metropolitan line services. London Underground tickets will be accepted on
Chiltern Railways, Great Western, Southern, London Overground, London
Midland and local bus services via any reasonable route."

That's a reduction of at least 40% of the service (depending on how much
the Heathrow branch service has been reduced). The train situation must be
dire if they can't even run a limited shuttle service between Acton Town
and Rayner's Lane.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 08:34:08 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Given the service level of the piccadilly line on the uxbridge branch when I
occasionally used it while working in ealing a few years back, I suspect
most
leaves on the line have a fairly undisturbed quiet life.

Well, that's certainly true today -- this is what was tweeted this morning:
"Due to shortage of serviceable trains there will be no service between
Acton Town and Uxbridge."

And from the web site:
"Piccadilly Line: No service between Acton Town and Uxbridge due to a
shortage of trains. SEVERE DELAYS on the rest of the line. Customers
travelling to stations between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge should use
Metropolitan line services. London Underground tickets will be accepted on
Chiltern Railways, Great Western, Southern, London Overground, London
Midland and local bus services via any reasonable route."

It certainly wasn't great this morning.

That's a reduction of at least 40% of the service (depending on how much
the Heathrow branch service has been reduced). The train situation must be
dire if they can't even run a limited shuttle service between Acton Town
and Rayner's Lane.

I would say that they'd found some serious fault in the trains and are keeping
it quiet while fixing them, but OTOH the unions would have a field day if that
was the case and we've heard nowt from them. Very odd.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 08:34:08 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Given the service level of the piccadilly line on the uxbridge branch when I
occasionally used it while working in ealing a few years back, I suspect
most
leaves on the line have a fairly undisturbed quiet life.

Well, that's certainly true today -- this is what was tweeted this morning:
"Due to shortage of serviceable trains there will be no service between
Acton Town and Uxbridge."

And from the web site:
"Piccadilly Line: No service between Acton Town and Uxbridge due to a
shortage of trains. SEVERE DELAYS on the rest of the line. Customers
travelling to stations between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge should use
Metropolitan line services. London Underground tickets will be accepted on
Chiltern Railways, Great Western, Southern, London Overground, London
Midland and local bus services via any reasonable route."

It certainly wasn't great this morning.

The situation doesn't seem to have improved, with the Rayner's Lane branch
still suspended, and severe delays on the remaining services. So perhaps
half the fleet has been withdrawn.

That's a reduction of at least 40% of the service (depending on how much
the Heathrow branch service has been reduced). The train situation must be
dire if they can't even run a limited shuttle service between Acton Town
and Rayner's Lane.

I would say that they'd found some serious fault in the trains and are keeping
it quiet while fixing them, but OTOH the unions would have a field day if that
was the case and we've heard nowt from them. Very odd.

Unless, of course, it's union action that's causing the problem? Is there
some dispute with the maintenance staff? Or are the drivers working to
rule about not taking out trains with even tiny, irrelevant defects?

If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.

On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 08:34:08 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Given the service level of the piccadilly line on the uxbridge branch when I
occasionally used it while working in ealing a few years back, I suspect
most
leaves on the line have a fairly undisturbed quiet life.

Well, that's certainly true today -- this is what was tweeted this morning:
"Due to shortage of serviceable trains there will be no service between
Acton Town and Uxbridge."

And from the web site:
"Piccadilly Line: No service between Acton Town and Uxbridge due to a
shortage of trains. SEVERE DELAYS on the rest of the line. Customers
travelling to stations between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge should use
Metropolitan line services. London Underground tickets will be accepted on
Chiltern Railways, Great Western, Southern, London Overground, London
Midland and local bus services via any reasonable route."

It certainly wasn't great this morning.

The situation doesn't seem to have improved, with the Rayner's Lane branch
still suspended, and severe delays on the remaining services. So perhaps
half the fleet has been withdrawn.

That's a reduction of at least 40% of the service (depending on how much
the Heathrow branch service has been reduced). The train situation must be
dire if they can't even run a limited shuttle service between Acton Town
and Rayner's Lane.

I would say that they'd found some serious fault in the trains and are keeping
it quiet while fixing them, but OTOH the unions would have a field day if that
was the case and we've heard nowt from them. Very odd.

Unless, of course, it's union action that's causing the problem? Is there
some dispute with the maintenance staff? Or are the drivers working to
rule about not taking out trains with even tiny, irrelevant defects?

If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:48:19 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
I would say that they'd found some serious fault in the trains and are
keeping
it quiet while fixing them, but OTOH the unions would have a field day if
that
was the case and we've heard nowt from them. Very odd.

Unless, of course, it's union action that's causing the problem? Is there
some dispute with the maintenance staff? Or are the drivers working to
rule about not taking out trains with even tiny, irrelevant defects?

Possibly, but you know how the RMT loves to boast about ever bit of industrial
action it takes and we've not heard anything about that. I suppose it could
be an unofficial work to rule with drivers just taking sickies. Wouldn't be
the first time.

--
Spud

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:37:10 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.

Over on District Daves forum they're saying its due to wheel flats from
leaves too. But I don't remember a time half of a lines stock all got serious
wheel flats at the same time and all had to be taken out of service. At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

--
Spud

wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:37:10 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.

Over on District Daves forum they're saying its due to wheel flats from
leaves too. But I don't remember a time half of a lines stock all got serious
wheel flats at the same time and all had to be taken out of service. At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

BBC reporter is now saying it is wheel flats
https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/802080954953109504

--
Mark

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:47:25 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:37:10 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.

Over on District Daves forum they're saying its due to wheel flats from
leaves too. But I don't remember a time half of a lines stock all got serious
wheel flats at the same time and all had to be taken out of service. At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

Yes, looking at that forum, it seems that the problem is down to not
enough RATs, plus, perhaps, poor driving technique.

I assume the 73TS doesn't have its own sanding gear?

On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:57:39 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 10:16:47 on Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Recliner
remarked:
I'm regularly seeing tweets from the Piccadilly Line that say that there's
a shortage of available trains. Is this some newly discovered technical
problem, or the result of union action? This fleet is regularly reported
as LU's most reliable.

Here's an example from this morning: "Apologies for the gaps in the
service, this is due to lack of available trains. Our staff are working
hard to resolve this issue."

Could be leaf-fall wheel flats. A lot of the Piccadilly line is in the
open air.

Yes, you were right. But I wonder why it's worse this year than
previous years? I used to commute on that line every day, and don't
remember anything like this.