On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:15:40 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:51:43 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:
If that was the only place immigrants were taking jobs then that would be a
valid question, but as you know - it isn't.

It's the jobs which tipped the Brexit balance among voters.

Yes, but I doubt it was particularly vegetable picking jobs.

I'm currently sitting in an office 60% immigrants, none of them doing
a job that couldn't have been done by a native. And in fact 1 position
was illegally filled since it wasn't advertised in the UK before a
foreign director found someone in his own country to fill it for a
pittance salary.

That's extraordinary. Either a very small office and that's six out of

Not in London it isn't. Most IT depts I've worked in in the last 10 years
have been 30-60% foreign nationals and the proportion has slowly been rising
over the years.

ten by some fluke, or as you hint a foreign-owned firm preferring its
nationals. And that could of course bring with them skills that a native
*didn't* have.

The majority of the directors are foreign and seem to prefer to hire
immigrants. I'm guessing because they're cheaper.

The last place I worked was a french company and a lot of jobs didn't get
created in the UK, they got "transfered" from france and so did the incumbent
who had been doing it for a couple of days after being hired in france. But
it still looks like a new UK job. Win!

Naturally politicians and Guardian readers are either too pig ignorant or out
of touch to realise this sort of thing is going on all over the place.

--
Spud

In message , at 14:31:45 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:

If that was the only place immigrants were taking jobs then that would be a
valid question, but as you know - it isn't.

It's the jobs which tipped the Brexit balance among voters.

Yes, but I doubt it was particularly vegetable picking jobs.

I'm currently sitting in an office 60% immigrants, none of them doing
a job that couldn't have been done by a native. And in fact 1 position
was illegally filled since it wasn't advertised in the UK before a
foreign director found someone in his own country to fill it for a
pittance salary.

That's extraordinary. Either a very small office and that's six out of

Not in London it isn't. Most IT depts I've worked in in the last 10 years
have been 30-60% foreign nationals and the proportion has slowly been rising
over the years.

ten by some fluke, or as you hint a foreign-owned firm preferring its
nationals. And that could of course bring with them skills that a native
*didn't* have.

The majority of the directors are foreign and seem to prefer to hire
immigrants. I'm guessing because they're cheaper.

The last place I worked was a french company and a lot of jobs didn't get
created in the UK, they got "transfered" from france and so did the incumbent
who had been doing it for a couple of days after being hired in france. But
it still looks like a new UK job. Win!

Naturally politicians and Guardian readers are either too pig ignorant or out
of touch to realise this sort of thing is going on all over the place.

Of course it happens a bit, but with only 12% of employees foreign
nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

Source: Labour Force Survey 2015, Q1-Q4.

Of course, our labour pool will be flooded by British expats sent
packing after freedom of movement in Europe ends.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:08:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:31:45 on Tue, 10 Jan
The last place I worked was a french company and a lot of jobs didn't get
created in the UK, they got "transfered" from france and so did the incumbent
who had been doing it for a couple of days after being hired in france. But
it still looks like a new UK job. Win!

Naturally politicians and Guardian readers are either too pig ignorant or out
of touch to realise this sort of thing is going on all over the place.

Of course it happens a bit, but with only 12% of employees foreign

More than a bit and I wouldn't use the word "only" when saying 12% of the
labour force is foreign.

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

Of course, our labour pool will be flooded by British expats sent
packing after freedom of movement in Europe ends.

They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in the UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical reason.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:08:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:31:45 on Tue, 10 Jan
The last place I worked was a french company and a lot of jobs didn't get
created in the UK, they got "transfered" from france and so did the incumbent
who had been doing it for a couple of days after being hired in france. But
it still looks like a new UK job. Win!

Naturally politicians and Guardian readers are either too pig ignorant or out
of touch to realise this sort of thing is going on all over the place.

Of course it happens a bit, but with only 12% of employees foreign

More than a bit and I wouldn't use the word "only" when saying 12% of the
labour force is foreign.

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

Of course, our labour pool will be flooded by British expats sent
packing after freedom of movement in Europe ends.

They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in the UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical reason.

Why would they fly back to the UK for NHS treatment? They're entitled to
use the local health services, which are often better than the NHS, on the
same terms as the locals.

Many of the expats work for the EU in Brussels, and although some might
want to stay on after the UK leaves, it sems that working for the EU in
Brussels doesn't qualify them for Belgian citizenship on the basis of
residence. They need to have been paying Belgian tax for that.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:31:45 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:

If that was the only place immigrants were taking jobs then that would be a
valid question, but as you know - it isn't.

It's the jobs which tipped the Brexit balance among voters.

Yes, but I doubt it was particularly vegetable picking jobs.

I'm currently sitting in an office 60% immigrants, none of them doing
a job that couldn't have been done by a native. And in fact 1 position
was illegally filled since it wasn't advertised in the UK before a
foreign director found someone in his own country to fill it for a
pittance salary.

That's extraordinary. Either a very small office and that's six out of

Not in London it isn't. Most IT depts I've worked in in the last 10 years
have been 30-60% foreign nationals and the proportion has slowly been rising
over the years.

ten by some fluke, or as you hint a foreign-owned firm preferring its
nationals. And that could of course bring with them skills that a native
*didn't* have.

The majority of the directors are foreign and seem to prefer to hire
immigrants. I'm guessing because they're cheaper.

The last place I worked was a french company and a lot of jobs didn't get
created in the UK, they got "transfered" from france and so did the incumbent
who had been doing it for a couple of days after being hired in france. But
it still looks like a new UK job. Win!

Naturally politicians and Guardian readers are either too pig ignorant or out
of touch to realise this sort of thing is going on all over the place.

Of course it happens a bit, but with only 12% of employees foreign
nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

Source: Labour Force Survey 2015, Q1-Q4.

Of course, our labour pool will be flooded by British expats sent
packing after freedom of movement in Europe ends.

I very much doubt that any established expats will be sent packing in
either direction. People already resident will almost certainly be
permitted to stay on.

Also, while most EU expats in the UK are workers, many UK expats in the EU
are retirees. While I'm sure they'll be permitted to remain, their access
to local health services may be more limited than today, which may mean
that some choose to return.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:46:37 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in the
UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical reason.

Why would they fly back to the UK for NHS treatment? They're entitled to
use the local health services, which are often better than the NHS, on the
same terms as the locals.

Maybe, but I can't think of many other reasons not to get a local passport.

Many of the expats work for the EU in Brussels, and although some might
want to stay on after the UK leaves, it sems that working for the EU in
Brussels doesn't qualify them for Belgian citizenship on the basis of
residence. They need to have been paying Belgian tax for that.

Quite why anyone would want to live in Belgium beats me anyway. France or
spain I can understand, but Belgium? Ugh.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:46:37 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in the
UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical reason.

Why would they fly back to the UK for NHS treatment? They're entitled to
use the local health services, which are often better than the NHS, on the
same terms as the locals.

Maybe, but I can't think of many other reasons not to get a local passport.

Perhaps they intend to return one day?


Many of the expats work for the EU in Brussels, and although some might
want to stay on after the UK leaves, it sems that working for the EU in
Brussels doesn't qualify them for Belgian citizenship on the basis of
residence. They need to have been paying Belgian tax for that.

Quite why anyone would want to live in Belgium beats me anyway. France or
spain I can understand, but Belgium? Ugh.

Once they get a Belgian passport, they could live and work in any EU
country.

In message , at 16:14:15 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:

The last place I worked was a french company and a lot of jobs didn't get
created in the UK, they got "transfered" from france and so did the incumbent
who had been doing it for a couple of days after being hired in france. But
it still looks like a new UK job. Win!

Naturally politicians and Guardian readers are either too pig ignorant or out
of touch to realise this sort of thing is going on all over the place.

Of course it happens a bit, but with only 12% of employees foreign

More than a bit and I wouldn't use the word "only" when saying 12% of the
labour force is foreign.

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

As most of the rest are patently minimum wage cleaning (etc) jobs, your
interest is misplaced.

Of course, our labour pool will be flooded by British expats sent
packing after freedom of movement in Europe ends.

They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in the UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical reason.

What amounts to freelancers will work wherever the cost-benefit is in
their favour. Brexit removes most of the benefits.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 16:53:40 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:
They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in the
UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical reason.

Why would they fly back to the UK for NHS treatment? They're entitled to
use the local health services, which are often better than the NHS, on the
same terms as the locals.

Maybe, but I can't think of many other reasons not to get a local passport.

Because currently *any* EU passport is equally as good.
--
Roland Perry

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 16:49:56 on Tue, 10 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:
Of course, our labour pool will be flooded by British expats sent
packing after freedom of movement in Europe ends.

I very much doubt that any established expats will be sent packing in
either direction. People already resident will almost certainly be
permitted to stay on.

Also, while most EU expats in the UK are workers, many UK expats in the EU
are retirees. While I'm sure they'll be permitted to remain, their access
to local health services may be more limited than today, which may mean
that some choose to return.

We'll see. While I agree that many retired ex-pats will be forced to
return to the UK and thus mop up quite a bit of the £350m extra Boris
promised the NHS, there are also a lot of expats in paying jobs in the
EU. The place I was attached to in the Netherlands a few years back had
perhaps a quarter of the staff (highly qualified) recruited from the UK
out of the 100 permanent employees.
--
Roland Perry