wrote in message news
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:08:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:31:45 on Tue, 10 Jan
The last place I worked was a french company and a lot of jobs didn't get
created in the UK, they got "transfered" from france and so did the
incumbent
who had been doing it for a couple of days after being hired in france.
But
it still looks like a new UK job. Win!

Naturally politicians and Guardian readers are either too pig ignorant or
out
of touch to realise this sort of thing is going on all over the place.

Of course it happens a bit, but with only 12% of employees foreign

More than a bit and I wouldn't use the word "only" when saying 12% of the
labour force is foreign.

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.


I've told this before, but I'll do it again

Some time ago, I did a short gig for a 2 man and a dog engineering company
who had decided to expand by taking on a couple of new engineering grads (as
SW/HW engineers).

They had employed one Asian female and an Indian male from that year's UK
graduations.

During a casual discussion with the MD when I said something like "those two
grads of yours seem to be getting on well" he replied with "yes", "and you
know the odd thing was, every single one of the applicants that we received
'looked like them'"

This was in rural Hants.

tim

wrote in message news
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 16:46:37 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of
their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in
the
UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply
to be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical
reason.

Why would they fly back to the UK for NHS treatment? They're entitled to
use the local health services, which are often better than the NHS, on the
same terms as the locals.

Maybe, but I can't think of many other reasons not to get a local
passport.

Many of the expats work for the EU in Brussels, and although some might
want to stay on after the UK leaves, it sems that working for the EU in
Brussels doesn't qualify them for Belgian citizenship on the basis of
residence. They need to have been paying Belgian tax for that.

Quite why anyone would want to live in Belgium beats me anyway. France or
spain I can understand, but Belgium? Ugh.

Brussels is a great place to live and work

rural Belgium, not quite so

tim



--
Spud

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 16:14:15 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:

The last place I worked was a french company and a lot of jobs didn't
get
created in the UK, they got "transfered" from france and so did the
incumbent
who had been doing it for a couple of days after being hired in france.
But
it still looks like a new UK job. Win!

Naturally politicians and Guardian readers are either too pig ignorant
or out
of touch to realise this sort of thing is going on all over the place.

Of course it happens a bit, but with only 12% of employees foreign

More than a bit and I wouldn't use the word "only" when saying 12% of the
labour force is foreign.

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

As most of the rest are patently minimum wage cleaning (etc) jobs, your
interest is misplaced.

Of course, our labour pool will be flooded by British expats sent
packing after freedom of movement in Europe ends.

They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of
their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in
the UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to
be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical
reason.

What amounts to freelancers will work wherever the cost-benefit is in
their favour. Brexit removes most of the benefits.

I don't know what it's like in finance, but the inclusion of the Eastern
workers to the pool has changed the scene in engineering for the worst
already.

When I started doing European Gigs you would find 80-90% of freelancers were
Brits (the locals usually being reluctant to live the freelance "life").

On my last one that was down to about 20% and whilst some of the difference
was made up by an increase in (still reluctant) locals, about 50% were from
East Europe.

I have no idea whether this is because they would work for less or not.

tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 16:49:56 on Tue, 10 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:
Of course, our labour pool will be flooded by British expats sent
packing after freedom of movement in Europe ends.

I very much doubt that any established expats will be sent packing in
either direction. People already resident will almost certainly be
permitted to stay on.

Also, while most EU expats in the UK are workers, many UK expats in the EU
are retirees. While I'm sure they'll be permitted to remain, their access
to local health services may be more limited than today, which may mean
that some choose to return.

We'll see. While I agree that many retired ex-pats will be forced to
return to the UK and thus mop up quite a bit of the £350m extra Boris
promised the NHS, there are also a lot of expats in paying jobs in the EU.
The place I was attached to in the Netherlands a few years back had
perhaps a quarter of the staff (highly qualified) recruited from the UK
out of the 100 permanent employees.

I think you've just described exactly why they wont be sent back.

Just how are they going to find suitably qualified local replacements for
25% of their workforce, all to start "tomorrow".

The thing about FoM is that its only works as a positive EU-wide right. It
doesn't work as a negative EU-wide restriction.

Individual EU countries are free to have their own rules wrt employment of
non-EU nationals and can give out as many "permissions" to work locally as
they see fit (of course such a permission doesn't give that individual FoM
to other countries). Counties who already have millions of UK workers can
immediately "legalises" them regardless of any Brexit agreement - and almost
certainly would be foolish not to.

Retirees are, of course, a different issue.

tim

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:38:36 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:53:40 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:
They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in the
UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to
be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical reason.

Why would they fly back to the UK for NHS treatment? They're entitled to
use the local health services, which are often better than the NHS, on the
same terms as the locals.

Maybe, but I can't think of many other reasons not to get a local passport.

Because currently *any* EU passport is equally as good.

Not if you want to vote. And if you live in a country I'd assume you'd want
to take part in the political process. Or maybe thats just me. There's probably
state pension issues too.

--
Spud

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:37:44 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:14:15 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:
nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

As most of the rest are patently minimum wage cleaning (etc) jobs, your
interest is misplaced.

The statement that only 3.2% of workers in IT are foreign nationals is
farcical.

They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than in the UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply to be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical reason.

What amounts to freelancers will work wherever the cost-benefit is in
their favour. Brexit removes most of the benefits.

Tough. The future of this country is more important than some itinerants making
a killing abroad.

--
Spud

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 08:49:12 -0000
"tim..." wrote:
wrote in message news
I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.


I've told this before, but I'll do it again

I think it was someone else you told because I don't remember it.

During a casual discussion with the MD when I said something like "those two
grads of yours seem to be getting on well" he replied with "yes", "and you
know the odd thing was, every single one of the applicants that we received
'looked like them'"

This was in rural Hants.

Job agencies can be very selective over who they put forward for a number of
reasons and not just to fit the clients criteria. Funnily enough many years ago
I was apparently put forward for a job only to be told by the agency my
experience didn't match the requirements so no interview. Another egency put me
forward for the same job and not only did I get an interview, I got the job
too. Clearly the 1st agent was lying through his teeth. Other people I know in
IT have had similar experiences with agencies over the years.

--
Spud

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 08:59:54 -0000
"tim..." wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
On my last one that was down to about 20% and whilst some of the difference
was made up by an increase in (still reluctant) locals, about 50% were from
East Europe.

I have no idea whether this is because they would work for less or not.

Its almost certainly that as it is in other fields. The brits who used to
do the jobs haven't suddenly vanished off the face of the earth.

A good example Guardianistas and similar morons love to cite is coffee shop
workers. "Look how the lazy brits won't do the job" they cry, having rarely
been outside the M25 except in an aircraft. If they visited most county towns
they'd find plenty of brits working in coffee chains and doing a fine job.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 08:49:12 -0000
"tim..." wrote:
wrote in message news
I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.


I've told this before, but I'll do it again

I think it was someone else you told because I don't remember it.

Me neither.

In message , at 09:36:14 on Wed, 11 Jan
2017, d remarked:
On my last one that was down to about 20% and whilst some of the difference
was made up by an increase in (still reluctant) locals, about 50% were from
East Europe.

I have no idea whether this is because they would work for less or not.

Its almost certainly that as it is in other fields. The brits who used to
do the jobs haven't suddenly vanished off the face of the earth.

There's an IT skills shortage, which explains the various forms of
'foreigner' mentioned in this thread. The British IT workers don't have
to suddenly vanish, there's more work to do, and many of them have
joined the brain drain (so have vanished from the UK you could argue).
--
Roland Perry