In message , at 09:29:04 on Wed, 11 Jan
2017, d remarked:

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

As most of the rest are patently minimum wage cleaning (etc) jobs, your
interest is misplaced.

The statement that only 3.2% of workers in IT are foreign nationals is
farcical.

You may of course be confused by the number of second generation
immigrants working in IT - Brits of course. And like I said, the
proportion in London is higher than the rest of the country, so you
can't extrapolate from the place(s) where you happen to work.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:11:54 on Wed, 11 Jan
2017, tim... remarked:

While I agree that many retired ex-pats will be forced to return to
the UK and thus mop up quite a bit of the £350m extra Boris promised
the NHS, there are also a lot of expats in paying jobs in the EU. The
place I was attached to in the Netherlands a few years back had
perhaps a quarter of the staff (highly qualified) recruited from the
UK out of the 100 permanent employees.

I think you've just described exactly why they wont be sent back.

Just how are they going to find suitably qualified local replacements
for 25% of their workforce, all to start "tomorrow".

There's a lot of churn in IT jobs, and while things won't change
*overnight* they may find it a lot harder to recruit Brits if those
Brits need a work permit.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 10:14:30 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:29:04 on Wed, 11 Jan
2017, d remarked:

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

As most of the rest are patently minimum wage cleaning (etc) jobs, your
interest is misplaced.

The statement that only 3.2% of workers in IT are foreign nationals is
farcical.

You may of course be confused by the number of second generation
immigrants working in IT - Brits of course. And like I said, the

Don't patronise me. I'm perfectly capable of hearing a british accent on an
asian or black person. I'm talking about foreign nationals.

proportion in London is higher than the rest of the country, so you
can't extrapolate from the place(s) where you happen to work.

Well I guess it depends what IT. If it includes every part time sys admin
who pops up in local firms around the country to fix a borked Windows machine
then probably not, but serious computing infrastructure, activity and workers
are generally confined to large firms who in turn are confined to only a few
areas in the country with London being the main one (followed by the M3/M4
corridors, manchester and glasgow).

--
Spud

In message , at 10:34:43 on Wed, 11 Jan
2017, d remarked:

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

As most of the rest are patently minimum wage cleaning (etc) jobs, your
interest is misplaced.

The statement that only 3.2% of workers in IT are foreign nationals is
farcical.

You may of course be confused by the number of second generation
immigrants working in IT - Brits of course. And like I said, the

Don't patronise me. I'm perfectly capable of hearing a british accent on an
asian or black person. I'm talking about foreign nationals.

Can you tell from their accent whether they've naturalised British?

--
Roland Perry

wrote in message news
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 08:59:54 -0000
"tim..." wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
On my last one that was down to about 20% and whilst some of the
difference
was made up by an increase in (still reluctant) locals, about 50% were
from
East Europe.

I have no idea whether this is because they would work for less or not.

Its almost certainly that as it is in other fields.

but in this case it won't be the end employer paying less

it will be the agency in the middle creaming off a bigger margin

The brits who used to
do the jobs haven't suddenly vanished off the face of the earth.

They haven't vanished but IME (and that of my colleagues that I am in touch
with) opportunities for foreign freelancers are becoming scarcer


tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 09:36:14 on Wed, 11 Jan 2017,
d remarked:
On my last one that was down to about 20% and whilst some of the
difference
was made up by an increase in (still reluctant) locals, about 50% were
from
East Europe.

I have no idea whether this is because they would work for less or not.

Its almost certainly that as it is in other fields. The brits who used to
do the jobs haven't suddenly vanished off the face of the earth.

There's an IT skills shortage,

not in engineering there isn't

tim

wrote in message news
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 08:49:12 -0000
"tim..." wrote:
wrote in message news
I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.


I've told this before, but I'll do it again

I think it was someone else you told because I don't remember it.

It almost certainly wasn't on this group, but there is overspill from people
on the most likely group, so I was CMA

During a casual discussion with the MD when I said something like "those
two
grads of yours seem to be getting on well" he replied with "yes", "and you
know the odd thing was, every single one of the applicants that we
received
'looked like them'"

This was in rural Hants.

Job agencies can be very selective over who they put forward for a number
of
reasons and not just to fit the clients criteria.

This was a new graduate recruitment

I don't think they went near an agency

Advert on the jobs board in the local unis the most likely route (I assume
that sort of thing still exists)

Funnily enough many years ago
I was apparently put forward for a job only to be told by the agency my
experience didn't match the requirements so no interview. Another egency
put me
forward for the same job and not only did I get an interview, I got the
job
too. Clearly the 1st agent was lying through his teeth. Other people I
know in
IT have had similar experiences with agencies over the years.

Me to, both sides of the fence

but as above, not applicable in this case

tim

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:03:15 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:34:43 on Wed, 11 Jan
2017, d remarked:

nationals, there are a lot of regional variations. To be fair the number
in London is higher than average - but most are in minimum wage jobs.
Just 3.2% in IT or telecoms jobs.

I'd be interested to see their definition of IT because my experience is
vastly different.

As most of the rest are patently minimum wage cleaning (etc) jobs, your
interest is misplaced.

The statement that only 3.2% of workers in IT are foreign nationals is
farcical.

You may of course be confused by the number of second generation
immigrants working in IT - Brits of course. And like I said, the

Don't patronise me. I'm perfectly capable of hearing a british accent on an
asian or black person. I'm talking about foreign nationals.

Can you tell from their accent whether they've naturalised British?

Stop splitting hairs. In this particular office there are few people with
british accents right now.

--
Spud

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 09:11:54 on Wed, 11 Jan 2017,
tim... remarked:

While I agree that many retired ex-pats will be forced to return to the
UK and thus mop up quite a bit of the £350m extra Boris promised the
NHS, there are also a lot of expats in paying jobs in the EU. The place
I was attached to in the Netherlands a few years back had perhaps a
quarter of the staff (highly qualified) recruited from the UK out of the
100 permanent employees.

I think you've just described exactly why they wont be sent back.

Just how are they going to find suitably qualified local replacements for
25% of their workforce, all to start "tomorrow".

There's a lot of churn in IT jobs, and while things won't change
*overnight* they may find it a lot harder to recruit Brits if those Brits
need a work permit.

I'm sure that if they need them it wont be that hard.

On my last gig there was an America freelancer. They jumped through the
hoops to get her on board as it was "necessary".

Though it's agreed that Brits will no longer be first port of call. But if
the current need of, for instance, German automotive companies (that is
where the demand for engineers is ATM) cannot be met locally (EU) they will
offer the positions to Brits and do the paperwork. The German government
knows that they need these people so will make sure that the paperwork isn't
too onerous. (IME the local Workers Council put up far more barriers to
employing freelance workers in the first place than the government do for
employing a non-EU citizen.)

I fell sure that you can make the same argument for commercial IT people in
Benelux (on nothing other than a hunch).

Though if it's Spain or Portugal, where overall demand for professional
staff is lower than local supply, they wont be making it easy.

tim

wrote in message news
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:38:36 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:53:40 on Tue, 10 Jan
2017, d remarked:
They always have the option of going native and getting a passport of
their
country of residence. Since they seem to believe life is better than
in the
UK
one has to wonder why they don't just do that anyway unless its simply
to
be
able to fly back and get free NHS treatment or some equally cynical
reason.

Why would they fly back to the UK for NHS treatment? They're entitled
to
use the local health services, which are often better than the NHS, on
the
same terms as the locals.

Maybe, but I can't think of many other reasons not to get a local
passport.

Because currently *any* EU passport is equally as good.

Not if you want to vote. And if you live in a country I'd assume you'd
want
to take part in the political process. Or maybe thats just me.

I got to vote in local elections

Germany is (I think) quite unique here in that, for sizable towns, they will
have a constituency of "foreign" residents who get to vote for their own
special choice of councilor who targets their manifesto at that minority
interest.

I also got a vote in EU elections. But I decided that it was pointless
using it.

I had so little knowledge of the leanings of German political parties that I
didn't have a clue which one comes closest to representing my specific
Political ideal - and I didn't believe that they would be prepared to spend
the effort to give me the information if I asked them (I actually had this
conversation with one of the canvassers in the town centre, and he agreed
with me - that they wouldn't find it worth their while to translate all
their literate into English for the small number of voters in the
constituency)

I suspect voting for a party at national elections has the same problem

There's probably
state pension issues too.

No, that's purely qualified for by years of contribution

tim