On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:33:24 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:23:54 on Tue, 24 Jan 2017,
tim... remarked:

No, the scarce resource is those deciding who to put on the list, and
handling complaints when people are denied boarding.

Better that it be done once, centrally,

By a huge team of people?

No. It's not some complex searching process, but simply keeping a
fairly small list of EU citizens who have UK criminal convictions or
have broken UK employment law. You're over-complicating it.

The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear to
be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic restaurants
working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the floor, in a
cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they often have no
papers, so can't be identified.

I must concede that I missed that point

But actually it will be possible with Schengen citizens, as the rule for
digital Passports in Schengen countries require the digital information to
include a finger print (something that is optional world wide and not used
by the UK.) (And in a very short time, if not already, all current
passports will be digital.)

So assuming the errant worker arrived by a normal method and just converted
his "pretend" holiday into a working visit his real identity can be
determined by checking his finger print again the EU-wide country's Passport
database.

All that's required here is the necessary authorisations to make that check.

(We are going to be making an agreement to co-operate on security matters
with the EU, aren't we. The EU does need access to our, vastly superior,
security services, doesn't it. The EU isn't going to cut its nose off to
spite its face by refusing to cooperate on such matters, is it?)

There's every reason to believe that security cooperation will
continue, as it has nothing to do with EU membership.

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:24:51 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:32:38 on Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:
The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the
floor, in a cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they
often have no papers, so can't be identified.

Are many of such staff EU citizens? If not, then it's unrelated to
continuing to allow EU citizens to use ePassport gates at UK airports.

Perhaps a bad example then. Working in the kitchen at a cafe or pub etc
etc.

To be working illegally like that would mean they were earning
significantly less than the minimum wage. I wonder how many EU
citizens are prepared to do that?

apparently some do

though obviously such an "off the radar" sector is difficult to measure

tim

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:33:24 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:23:54 on Tue, 24 Jan
2017,
tim... remarked:

No, the scarce resource is those deciding who to put on the list,
and
handling complaints when people are denied boarding.

Better that it be done once, centrally,

By a huge team of people?

No. It's not some complex searching process, but simply keeping a
fairly small list of EU citizens who have UK criminal convictions or
have broken UK employment law. You're over-complicating it.

The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to
be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants
working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the floor, in a
cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they often have no
papers, so can't be identified.

I must concede that I missed that point

But actually it will be possible with Schengen citizens, as the rule for
digital Passports in Schengen countries require the digital information to
include a finger print (something that is optional world wide and not used
by the UK.) (And in a very short time, if not already, all current
passports will be digital.)

So assuming the errant worker arrived by a normal method and just
converted
his "pretend" holiday into a working visit his real identity can be
determined by checking his finger print again the EU-wide country's
Passport
database.

All that's required here is the necessary authorisations to make that
check.

(We are going to be making an agreement to co-operate on security matters
with the EU, aren't we. The EU does need access to our, vastly superior,
security services, doesn't it. The EU isn't going to cut its nose off to
spite its face by refusing to cooperate on such matters, is it?)

There's every reason to believe that security cooperation will
continue, as it has nothing to do with EU membership.

try telling that to the Remoaners and their list of things that we will lose
by leaving

tim

In message , at 12:23:23 on
Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Recliner remarked:

The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the
floor, in a cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they
often have no papers, so can't be identified.

Are many of such staff EU citizens? If not, then it's unrelated to
continuing to allow EU citizens to use ePassport gates at UK airports.

Perhaps a bad example then. Working in the kitchen at a cafe or pub etc
etc.

To be working illegally like that would mean they were earning
significantly less than the minimum wage. I wonder how many EU
citizens are prepared to do that?

What's minimum wage in Lithuania?
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:08:38 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Recliner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:33:24 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:23:54 on Tue, 24 Jan
2017,
tim... remarked:

No, the scarce resource is those deciding who to put on the list,
and
handling complaints when people are denied boarding.

Better that it be done once, centrally,

By a huge team of people?

No. It's not some complex searching process, but simply keeping a
fairly small list of EU citizens who have UK criminal convictions or
have broken UK employment law. You're over-complicating it.

The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to
be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants
working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the floor, in a
cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they often have no
papers, so can't be identified.

I must concede that I missed that point

But actually it will be possible with Schengen citizens, as the rule for
digital Passports in Schengen countries require the digital information to
include a finger print (something that is optional world wide and not used
by the UK.) (And in a very short time, if not already, all current
passports will be digital.)

So assuming the errant worker arrived by a normal method and just
converted
his "pretend" holiday into a working visit his real identity can be
determined by checking his finger print again the EU-wide country's
Passport
database.

All that's required here is the necessary authorisations to make that
check.

(We are going to be making an agreement to co-operate on security matters
with the EU, aren't we. The EU does need access to our, vastly superior,
security services, doesn't it. The EU isn't going to cut its nose off to
spite its face by refusing to cooperate on such matters, is it?)

There's every reason to believe that security cooperation will
continue, as it has nothing to do with EU membership.

try telling that to the Remoaners and their list of things that we will lose
by leaving

There's lots of valuable things we will lose, but I don't think that's
one of them. Incidentally, as seen recently, security cooperation even
within the Schengen area, or indeed in Belgium alone, hasn't been
wonderful.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:20:01 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:23:23 on
Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Recliner remarked:

The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the
floor, in a cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they
often have no papers, so can't be identified.

Are many of such staff EU citizens? If not, then it's unrelated to
continuing to allow EU citizens to use ePassport gates at UK airports.

Perhaps a bad example then. Working in the kitchen at a cafe or pub etc
etc.

To be working illegally like that would mean they were earning
significantly less than the minimum wage. I wonder how many EU
citizens are prepared to do that?

What's minimum wage in Lithuania?

Irrelevant. They'd be living here, with UK costs, and trying to send
money home, harder now that the £ is weaker. And the standard of
living isn't all that low in Lithuania.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57657696705775

In message , at 13:39:31 on
Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Recliner remarked:

To be working illegally like that would mean they were earning
significantly less than the minimum wage. I wonder how many EU
citizens are prepared to do that?

What's minimum wage in Lithuania?

Irrelevant. They'd be living here, with UK costs, and trying to send
money home, harder now that the £ is weaker.

It works for the Lithuanians crop-picking in the fens.

And the standard of living isn't all that low in Lithuania.

Average wage 616 Euro a month versus 2,140 Euro here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:32:52 on Wed, 25 Jan
2017, tim... remarked:
What's minimum wage in Lithuania?

Irrelevant. They'd be living here, with UK costs, and trying to send
money home, harder now that the £ is weaker.

It works for the Lithuanians crop-picking in the fens.

And the standard of living isn't all that low in Lithuania.

Average wage 616 Euro a month versus 2,140 Euro here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage

and if you click on Median Wages the difference is even greater

OT- surprised how low wages are in Malta

Is that what makes the Maltese cross?
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:58:40 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:39:31 on
Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Recliner remarked:

To be working illegally like that would mean they were earning
significantly less than the minimum wage. I wonder how many EU
citizens are prepared to do that?

What's minimum wage in Lithuania?

Irrelevant. They'd be living here, with UK costs, and trying to send
money home, harder now that the £ is weaker.

It works for the Lithuanians crop-picking in the fens.

And the standard of living isn't all that low in Lithuania.

Average wage 616 Euro a month versus 2,140 Euro here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage

Yes, but the cost of living is also much lower there. Living in the UK
at significantly below the minimum wage doesn't leave very much to
send home.

In message , at 14:55:54 on
Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Recliner remarked:
To be working illegally like that would mean they were earning
significantly less than the minimum wage. I wonder how many EU
citizens are prepared to do that?

What's minimum wage in Lithuania?

Irrelevant. They'd be living here, with UK costs, and trying to send
money home, harder now that the £ is weaker.

It works for the Lithuanians crop-picking in the fens.

And the standard of living isn't all that low in Lithuania.

Average wage 616 Euro a month versus 2,140 Euro here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage

Yes, but the cost of living is also much lower there. Living in the UK
at significantly below the minimum wage doesn't leave very much to
send home.

Even sleeping eight to a portacabin in the farmyard, and having no
noticeable expenses than cheap food?
--
Roland Perry