In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked:

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 22:13:51 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track,
and the number of trains isnt limited to two.

In both cases like the shuttle at Stansted, or thinking back a long way
the inter-terminal shuttle at DFW back in the 80's. May be still there.

No, the Gatwick shuttle is different: it's simply two unconnected shuttle
lines, with no switches or crossovers. Each line has its own train that
simply shuttles backwards and forwards, so there are a maximum of two
trains. In Stansted, there are separate up and down lines, and the number
of trains isn't limited by the layout. The Heathrow T5 system can work in
either mode.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked:

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed
terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I
don't think you are).

As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

In message , at 02:10:19 on Sat, 25 Mar
2017, John Levine remarked:

Thanks. I wonder why they have head and tail lights?

Yes, I wondered that. Perhaps for the benefit of (rare) track workers?

Probably because the same equipment runs outside in other places. The
Dallas-Fort Worth system is elevated,

I'm pretty sure the original one was like a roller-coaster, at or below
ground level (see below) and diving under the roads. Only four terminals
then.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_guide_map200
2.jpg
--
Roland Perry

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:11:51 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track,
and the number of trains isnt limited to two.

In both cases like the shuttle at Stansted, or thinking back a long way
the inter-terminal shuttle at DFW back in the 80's. May be still there.

No,

Yes ... Stansted and DFW "both have" points for trains to switch tracks,
and not limited to two trains.

the Gatwick shuttle is different: it's simply two unconnected shuttle
lines, with no switches or crossovers. Each line has its own train that
simply shuttles backwards and forwards, so there are a maximum of two
trains. In Stansted, there are separate up and down lines, and the number
of trains isn't limited by the layout. The Heathrow T5 system can work in
either mode.


--
Roland Perry

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:31:13 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4.

"You should see the other guy" isn't very persuasive.

It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a
regular user of it, which I don't think you are).

I've flown in once (very long walk to immigration) and out once (not
such a long walk to the gate). Different triangular trips.

As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

It doesn't *look* as long as the Angel one, or even the Gatwick bridge
from the North terminal.

The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

What's your estimate of the height of the two airport ones (in metres).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:31:13 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4.

"You should see the other guy" isn't very persuasive.

Yes it is. I'm comparing it with other very large terminals that I've used
multiple times. Obviously there's less walking in small terminals.


It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a
regular user of it, which I don't think you are).

I've flown in once (very long walk to immigration) and out once (not
such a long walk to the gate). Different triangular trips.

I use it several times a year, and have arrived and departed from all three
of the buildings. I've also used all the business and first class lounges.


As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

It doesn't *look* as long as the Angel one, or even the Gatwick bridge
from the North terminal.

It's comparable to, but almost certainly slightly longer than, Angel; it is
definitely much longer than the Gatwick bridge escalator (which starts a
bit higher, but only descends to first floor departures level, not deep
underground).


The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

What's your estimate of the height of the two airport ones (in metres).

There's no point in my producing rough estimates of heights, but I've used
both the escalators in question multiple times in the last year or so, and
have no doubt which is longer.

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 10:39:23 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

"You should see the other guy" isn't very persuasive.

Yes it is. I'm comparing it with other very large terminals that I've used
multiple times. Obviously there's less walking in small terminals.

Just because there are other badly designed (from the pedestrian's point
of view) terminals, doesn't excuse T5 from learning from those lessons.

It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a
regular user of it, which I don't think you are).

I've flown in once (very long walk to immigration) and out once (not
such a long walk to the gate). Different triangular trips.

I use it several times a year, and have arrived and departed from all three
of the buildings. I've also used all the business and first class lounges.

Maybe you are over-conditioned to these unnecessary route-marches.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:54:10 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 10:39:23 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

"You should see the other guy" isn't very persuasive.

Yes it is. I'm comparing it with other very large terminals that I've used
multiple times. Obviously there's less walking in small terminals.

Just because there are other badly designed (from the pedestrian's point
of view) terminals, doesn't excuse T5 from learning from those lessons.

What lessons? As a frequent user, I think it's the best large
terminal I've ever used and sets the standard that other large
terminals should aim for. And I've used quite a few of them.
Incidentally, I'm not the only one who thinks it's good:

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards/worlds_best_airport_terminal.html

It's a pity that the newer Heathrow T2 isn't as good.


It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a
regular user of it, which I don't think you are).

I've flown in once (very long walk to immigration) and out once (not
such a long walk to the gate). Different triangular trips.

I use it several times a year, and have arrived and departed from all three
of the buildings. I've also used all the business and first class lounges.

Maybe you are over-conditioned to these unnecessary route-marches.

Well, I know it's significantly better than any other large terminal I
use, and I've used a lot, including Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing,
etc. I'm curious why you hate it so much, given that you've hardly any
experience of it?

In message , at 11:20:49 on
Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked:

Maybe you are over-conditioned to these unnecessary route-marches.

Well, I know it's significantly better than any other large terminal I
use, and I've used a lot, including Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing,
etc. I'm curious why you hate it so much, given that you've hardly any
experience of it?

The excessive walk the first time I landed there.

When I've met people off flights, it's a shame the exit from customs is
the other end of the building to the train stations.
--
Roland Perry