In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

Not only do I have a brain that happens to work in that way (in
effect I have a "photographic memory" for walking/driving routes),
I've been using the tube for 50yrs. In the case of Kings Cross, I
followed the design and building with a fine tooth comb. Here's my
much-discussed guess at the final configuration, long before they
started building:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

Yet from the stairs beyond the end of platform 8, labelled Kings Cross
Mainline (ECML) in your diagram, the signs at the bottom of the stairs
direct passengers to turn right for the Victoria Line while turning left is
a much shorter walking route. This is as daft as imagining that one-way
streets reduce traffic.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 11:51:41 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 09:57:09 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Yes, Heathrow has four long-haul terminals, all of which get A380 services.
Which one did you think wasn't long haul?

T1, but I see you saying it's no longer in use. (And hence any memory of
the quickest exit route is moot).

LHR T1 closed almost two years ago, and in its final few months had
few remaining flights. But before then, there were actually five
terminals handling long-haul flights for a period, as T1 also handled
some long-haul flights. It was probably decades ago that T1 was
short-haul only, certainly before T4 opened.

It must therefore be quite a few years since LHR only had three
terminals with long-haul flights. Perhaps it was before T5 opened,
when T2 was still used mainly for short-haul European flights (it was
originally called the Europa Building); however, I'm not sure if it
didn't get a few long-hauls as well.

In message , at 13:20:26 on Sun, 26 Mar
2017, Basil Jet remarked:
I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins?

The newish system at CDG is pretty long.

Perhaps a working definition might be "is more than half serving outside
of the airport perimeter fence"?

How about "Does a single facility account for the majority of
passengers at all of the stations except one?"

What do you mean by "single facility"? The CDG system connects
terminals, car parks, and the train stations. Traffic is spread fairly
evenly amongst them all.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:25:08 -0500,
wrote:

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

Not only do I have a brain that happens to work in that way (in
effect I have a "photographic memory" for walking/driving routes),
I've been using the tube for 50yrs. In the case of Kings Cross, I
followed the design and building with a fine tooth comb. Here's my
much-discussed guess at the final configuration, long before they
started building:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

Yet from the stairs beyond the end of platform 8, labelled Kings Cross
Mainline (ECML) in your diagram, the signs at the bottom of the stairs
direct passengers to turn right for the Victoria Line while turning left is
a much shorter walking route. This is as daft as imagining that one-way
streets reduce traffic.

Roland has often pointed out that there are sometimes better ways
through the Kings Cross underground maze than the signposted routes,
which seem designed to spread people out, in order to reduce
over-crowding, rather than to give them the shortest route. They also,
in some cases, lead to step-free routes.

In message , at 07:25:08
on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, remarked:
Not only do I have a brain that happens to work in that way (in
effect I have a "photographic memory" for walking/driving routes),
I've been using the tube for 50yrs. In the case of Kings Cross, I
followed the design and building with a fine tooth comb. Here's my
much-discussed guess at the final configuration, long before they
started building:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

Yet from the stairs beyond the end of platform 8, labelled Kings Cross
Mainline (ECML) in your diagram, the signs at the bottom of the stairs
direct passengers to turn right for the Victoria Line while turning left is
a much shorter walking route. This is as daft as imagining that one-way
streets reduce traffic.

That's because the pairs of escalators to the deep tube from the classic
hall can't cope with the full flow (or anything like it) so the signage
tries to convince sufficient people to go via the new high-capacity
route. In extremes they set up a one-way system where it's only "up" to
the classic hall (but sadly they still mix some-of-the-up with the all-
of-the-down in those long tunnels, which doesn't really fit).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:19:00 on
Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked:
On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:25:08 -0500,
wrote:

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

Not only do I have a brain that happens to work in that way (in
effect I have a "photographic memory" for walking/driving routes),
I've been using the tube for 50yrs. In the case of Kings Cross, I
followed the design and building with a fine tooth comb. Here's my
much-discussed guess at the final configuration, long before they
started building:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

Yet from the stairs beyond the end of platform 8, labelled Kings Cross
Mainline (ECML) in your diagram, the signs at the bottom of the stairs
direct passengers to turn right for the Victoria Line while turning left is
a much shorter walking route. This is as daft as imagining that one-way
streets reduce traffic.

Roland has often pointed out that there are sometimes better ways
through the Kings Cross underground maze than the signposted routes,
which seem designed to spread people out, in order to reduce
over-crowding,

Exactly.

rather than to give them the shortest route. They also,
in some cases, lead to step-free routes.

Picc and Vic.

Northern and Circle step-free are at the southern end of the comples.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:25:08 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:

Not only do I have a brain that happens to work in that way (in
effect I have a "photographic memory" for walking/driving routes),
I've been using the tube for 50yrs. In the case of Kings Cross, I
followed the design and building with a fine tooth comb. Here's my
much-discussed guess at the final configuration, long before they
started building:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

Yet from the stairs beyond the end of platform 8, labelled Kings Cross
Mainline (ECML) in your diagram, the signs at the bottom of the stairs
direct passengers to turn right for the Victoria Line while turning left
is a much shorter walking route. This is as daft as imagining that
one-way streets reduce traffic.

Roland has often pointed out that there are sometimes better ways
through the Kings Cross underground maze than the signposted routes,
which seem designed to spread people out, in order to reduce
over-crowding, rather than to give them the shortest route. They also,
in some cases, lead to step-free routes.

Hence my reference to the fallacy that (longer) one-way streets reduce
traffic. Sending people on longer routes creates congestion, especially when
so spectacularly longer than the direct route. Not so long ago they
recognised this and reversed the direction arrow I was referring to. The
change was then undone.

It undermines faith in direction signing when people discover they are being
sent on long detours.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 11:51:41 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 09:57:09 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Yes, Heathrow has four long-haul terminals, all of which get A380
services. Which one did you think wasn't long haul?

T1, but I see you saying it's no longer in use. (And hence any memory of
the quickest exit route is moot).

LHR T1 closed almost two years ago, and in its final few months had
few remaining flights. But before then, there were actually five
terminals handling long-haul flights for a period, as T1 also handled
some long-haul flights. It was probably decades ago that T1 was
short-haul only, certainly before T4 opened.

Surely it was the old T2 (built as the BEA Terminal) which was short-haul
only?

It must therefore be quite a few years since LHR only had three
terminals with long-haul flights. Perhaps it was before T5 opened,
when T2 was still used mainly for short-haul European flights (it was
originally called the Europa Building); however, I'm not sure if it
didn't get a few long-hauls as well.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 11:51:41 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 09:57:09 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Yes, Heathrow has four long-haul terminals, all of which get A380
services. Which one did you think wasn't long haul?

T1, but I see you saying it's no longer in use. (And hence any memory of
the quickest exit route is moot).

LHR T1 closed almost two years ago, and in its final few months had
few remaining flights. But before then, there were actually five
terminals handling long-haul flights for a period, as T1 also handled
some long-haul flights. It was probably decades ago that T1 was
short-haul only, certainly before T4 opened.

Surely it was the old T2 (built as the BEA Terminal) which was short-haul
only?

Yes, originally, as I said in the next para:

It must therefore be quite a few years since LHR only had three
terminals with long-haul flights. Perhaps it was before T5 opened,
when T2 was still used mainly for short-haul European flights (it was
originally called the Europa Building); however, I'm not sure if it
didn't get a few long-hauls as well.

BA left T2 many years ago, which was then used by other European airlines,
and for a long time split its flights between T1 and T3, with short haul in
T1. When T4 opened, BA split its flights across all three terminals, with
only T2 not seeing BA flights.

In message , at 10:27:14
on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, remarked:

Not only do I have a brain that happens to work in that way (in
effect I have a "photographic memory" for walking/driving routes),
I've been using the tube for 50yrs. In the case of Kings Cross, I
followed the design and building with a fine tooth comb. Here's my
much-discussed guess at the final configuration, long before they
started building:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

Yet from the stairs beyond the end of platform 8, labelled Kings Cross
Mainline (ECML) in your diagram, the signs at the bottom of the stairs
direct passengers to turn right for the Victoria Line while turning left
is a much shorter walking route. This is as daft as imagining that
one-way streets reduce traffic.

Roland has often pointed out that there are sometimes better ways
through the Kings Cross underground maze than the signposted routes,
which seem designed to spread people out, in order to reduce
over-crowding, rather than to give them the shortest route. They also,
in some cases, lead to step-free routes.

Hence my reference to the fallacy that (longer) one-way streets reduce
traffic. Sending people on longer routes creates congestion, especially when
so spectacularly longer than the direct route.

It's not the equivalent of one-way streets - they've built a three lane
each way inner ring road in addition to the existing High Street.

Not so long ago they recognised this and reversed the direction arrow I
was referring to. The change was then undone.

Perhaps the congestion was worse?

It undermines faith in direction signing when people discover they are being
sent on long detours.

If they are non-regulars they won't even know. Regulars who care will
take the shorter one.
--
Roland Perry