On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 02:40:15 -0700 (PDT), Ding Bat
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 12:53:09 PM UTC+5:30, Recliner wrote:
Ding Bat wrote:
On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 4:29:45 PM UTC+5:30, Recliner wrote:
Ding Bat wrote:
On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:06:46 PM UTC+5:30, wrote:

As an aside, how do trains on the ECML get south of the river, where's
the link to the current thameslink route?

Trains from the north either terminate at King's Cross or go to a through
station under St Pancras. To reach the latter, a tunnel was burrowed under
the canal to the north of St Pancras.

The two Canal Tunnels, actually, built over a decade ago.

They're unfortunately named. A canal tunnel used to be for waterborne
vessels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

I agree, and it's also a rather ambiguous name: one that linked it to the
area might have been better (eg, St Pancras tunnels?).

I was referring to the one for north to south traffic;
obviously, there's another for the other direction.

Well, it might have been a double-track tunnel.

Tunneling today is done with an automated mole having a circular cross section,
so a Paris style semi-circular tunnel for double-track is impracticable.
Where does London have multi-track tunnels? Snow Hill? The route of the
former Circle Line? FWIW, the Canal tunnels' portal is double-track.

That's true of most Tube tunnel portals, as the initial shallow
section is cut and cover. The TBMs only do the deep tunneling.

All of the sub-surface LU line tunnels are cut and cover. That's not
just the Circle line, but the Met line to Finchley Road and the
District line tunnels in East London. The Piccadilly line tunnel to
Hatton Cross is also shallow cut and cover double track. All of the
old mainline railway tunnels are also cut and cover, and usually
double track. Even the Brunel ELL Thames tunnel, though obviously not
cut and cover, is double-track. I've not seen an analysis, but there
must be almost as much double track tunnel in central London as deep
bore single track tube tunnels.

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 10:49:50 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2017\08\08 10:40, Ding Bat wrote:
Tunneling today is done with an automated mole having a circular cross section,
so a Paris style semi-circular tunnel for double-track is impracticable.
Where does London have multi-track tunnels?

There are numerous between Kings Cross and Potters Bar. I doubt they are
all cut-and-cover.

No, definitely not, but they weren't drilled using TBMs, either. Given
when they were built, I assume they were cut by hand.

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Ding Bat wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 3:55:15 PM UTC+5:30, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:29:05 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:31:33 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:28:13 on Fri, 4 Aug
2017, d remarked:

Indeed what? Is knowing the precise junction layouts of the
various lines
a prerequsite of being able to discuss this?

No, but it would help you not look like a total prat.

When I start wearing an anorak and hanging around at the end of
platforms
carrying a thermos flask and notebook I might give a ****. Until
then...

....we will ignore everything you say, as you've now admitted it's
founded upon ignorance.

Feel free to point out where I said anything of the sort.

Your clearly admitted ignorance of the most basic details of the
Thameslink routes.

So not knowing about part of the new thameslink route means I don't
know
anything at all? Oh how handwaving convenient for your limp riposte.

You've also previously demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge about
the Thameslink route from Blackfriars to London Bridge in the thread
you started entitled 'Blackfriars - London Bridge:

"When was there last a service that went through both these stations?
I noticed theres a 3 track chord linking the line from blackfriars to
the charing X line but the tracks were rusty and there were some
road-rail maintenance machines sitting on it. Is it just for
occasional out of service stock movements now?"

What's wrong with lacking knowledge? You too don't know everything.

That's certainly true: there are many, many things I don't know. But I
don't go round pouring scorn on things I know little or nothing about, as
Spud/Boltar does.

but you do go around stating your personal opinions as fact and berate
anyone who tries to tell you you are mistaken

tim

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 12:21:54 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Ding Bat wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 3:55:15 PM UTC+5:30, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:29:05 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:31:33 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:28:13 on Fri, 4 Aug
2017, d remarked:

Indeed what? Is knowing the precise junction layouts of the
various lines
a prerequsite of being able to discuss this?

No, but it would help you not look like a total prat.

When I start wearing an anorak and hanging around at the end of
platforms
carrying a thermos flask and notebook I might give a ****. Until
then...

....we will ignore everything you say, as you've now admitted it's
founded upon ignorance.

Feel free to point out where I said anything of the sort.

Your clearly admitted ignorance of the most basic details of the
Thameslink routes.

So not knowing about part of the new thameslink route means I don't
know
anything at all? Oh how handwaving convenient for your limp riposte.

You've also previously demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge about
the Thameslink route from Blackfriars to London Bridge in the thread
you started entitled 'Blackfriars - London Bridge:

"When was there last a service that went through both these stations?
I noticed theres a 3 track chord linking the line from blackfriars to
the charing X line but the tracks were rusty and there were some
road-rail maintenance machines sitting on it. Is it just for
occasional out of service stock movements now?"

What's wrong with lacking knowledge? You too don't know everything.

That's certainly true: there are many, many things I don't know. But I
don't go round pouring scorn on things I know little or nothing about, as
Spud/Boltar does.

but you do go around stating your personal opinions as fact and berate
anyone who tries to tell you you are mistaken

I assume you're referring to my expectations for the future? Obviously
no predictions are fact, but I don't make predictions that aren't well
researched and supported by evidence. And they're not necessarily my
opinions or what I would like to happen, just what majority opinion
thinks will happen. Of course they're not certain to happen, because
no predictions can be 100% accurate, but at least I research what I
state.

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 12:21:54 +0100
"tim..." wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message
-septem
er.org...
Ding Bat wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 3:55:15 PM UTC+5:30, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:29:05 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:31:33 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:28:13 on Fri, 4 Aug
2017, d remarked:

Indeed what? Is knowing the precise junction layouts of the
various lines
a prerequsite of being able to discuss this?

No, but it would help you not look like a total prat.

When I start wearing an anorak and hanging around at the end of
platforms
carrying a thermos flask and notebook I might give a ****. Until
then...

....we will ignore everything you say, as you've now admitted it's
founded upon ignorance.

Feel free to point out where I said anything of the sort.

Your clearly admitted ignorance of the most basic details of the
Thameslink routes.

So not knowing about part of the new thameslink route means I don't
know
anything at all? Oh how handwaving convenient for your limp riposte.

You've also previously demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge about
the Thameslink route from Blackfriars to London Bridge in the thread
you started entitled 'Blackfriars - London Bridge:

"When was there last a service that went through both these stations?
I noticed theres a 3 track chord linking the line from blackfriars to
the charing X line but the tracks were rusty and there were some
road-rail maintenance machines sitting on it. Is it just for
occasional out of service stock movements now?"

What's wrong with lacking knowledge? You too don't know everything.

That's certainly true: there are many, many things I don't know. But I
don't go round pouring scorn on things I know little or nothing about, as
Spud/Boltar does.

but you do go around stating your personal opinions as fact and berate
anyone who tries to tell you you are mistaken

Neither do I. However feel free to post an example of where I've done it if
you're so sure.

Thats the amusing thing about you, recliner, perry and ambulance blocker, you
tend to accuse me of this sort of thing yet when I ask for some examples you
all mysteriously go quiet. Ain't that strange?


--
Spud

wrote:
On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 12:21:54 +0100
"tim..." wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message
-septem
er.org...
Ding Bat wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 3:55:15 PM UTC+5:30, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:29:05 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:31:33 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:28:13 on Fri, 4 Aug
2017, d remarked:

Indeed what? Is knowing the precise junction layouts of the
various lines
a prerequsite of being able to discuss this?

No, but it would help you not look like a total prat.

When I start wearing an anorak and hanging around at the end of
platforms
carrying a thermos flask and notebook I might give a ****. Until
then...

....we will ignore everything you say, as you've now admitted it's
founded upon ignorance.

Feel free to point out where I said anything of the sort.

Your clearly admitted ignorance of the most basic details of the
Thameslink routes.

So not knowing about part of the new thameslink route means I don't
know
anything at all? Oh how handwaving convenient for your limp riposte.

You've also previously demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge about
the Thameslink route from Blackfriars to London Bridge in the thread
you started entitled 'Blackfriars - London Bridge:

"When was there last a service that went through both these stations?
I noticed theres a 3 track chord linking the line from blackfriars to
the charing X line but the tracks were rusty and there were some
road-rail maintenance machines sitting on it. Is it just for
occasional out of service stock movements now?"

What's wrong with lacking knowledge? You too don't know everything.

That's certainly true: there are many, many things I don't know. But I
don't go round pouring scorn on things I know little or nothing about, as
Spud/Boltar does.

but you do go around stating your personal opinions as fact and berate
anyone who tries to tell you you are mistaken

Neither do I. However feel free to post an example of where I've done it if
you're so sure.

Thats the amusing thing about you, recliner, perry and ambulance blocker, you
tend to accuse me of this sort of thing yet when I ask for some examples you
all mysteriously go quiet. Ain't that strange?

It's too painful to go through all your previous misspelt postings. But,
rest assured, I'll try to remember to point them out next time.

Let's start with your latest Waterloo thread — was that meant to be fact or
opinion?

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 14:17:53 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Thats the amusing thing about you, recliner, perry and ambulance blocker,
you
tend to accuse me of this sort of thing yet when I ask for some examples you
all mysteriously go quiet. Ain't that strange?

It's too painful to go through all your previous misspelt postings. But,

Painful? Thats an interesting euphamism for not possible.

rest assured, I'll try to remember to point them out next time.

Let's start with your latest Waterloo thread — was that meant to be fact or
opinion?

Are you unable to seperate the 2 parts?

Actually, tell a lie, they'd installed a bouncy castle and a funfair.

--
Spud

On 2017\08\08 11:54, Recliner wrote:

That's true of most Tube tunnel portals, as the initial shallow
section is cut and cover. The TBMs only do the deep tunneling.

I've just looked at numerous tube portals in Bing Maps using the 45
degree view. The pair of round portals are clearly visible in most. I
have found none which clearly match your description.

In message , at 12:21:54 on Tue, 8 Aug 2017,
tim... remarked:

but you do go around stating your personal opinions as fact and berate
anyone who tries to tell you you are mistaken

Can you two get a room, before I'm forced to go out and buy some more
popcorn?
--
Roland Perry

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\08 11:54, Recliner wrote:

That's true of most Tube tunnel portals, as the initial shallow
section is cut and cover. The TBMs only do the deep tunneling.

I've just looked at numerous tube portals in Bing Maps using the 45
degree view. The pair of round portals are clearly visible in most. I
have found none which clearly match your description.

I don't think the round Tube tunnels are visible at either end of the
Jubilee line, nor the Bakerloo line, nor the western end of the Piccadilly
line; not sure of the eastern end, but I don't think so. The Central line
Stratford tunnel portals are separate, with Crossrail tracks in between,
while the (separate) western portals are buried under the Westfield
development and no longer visible. I'm not sure about the Northern line
northern portals, but the tube tunnels are visble at Morden.

The Victoria line and Drain are entirely underground, so no portals. The
DLR Bank tunnel round tube tunnels are visible, but I don't think the other
DLR tube tunnels are.