wrote:
On Wed, 02 Aug 2017 14:43:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:34:02 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 14:19:14 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

A class 700 all the way to Leicester? Ouch!

How far further north do you think Leicester is than Peterborough?

By rail, I'd have thought it was nearly 20 miles further?

Very close in mileage. For trains with a similar number of stops it's
just 7 minutes. And that's with diesel on the MML, an electric train
should be able to close the gap significantly.

Or not, as the case may be: the current diesels can travel at up to
125mph, but the wiring to Bedford was only designed for 100mph
running. And IEPs on diesel power probably won't be able to get up to
125mph. So if the HSTs are replaced by IEPs, the service may actually
slow down.

Thats an interesting point. I suppose the DoT would argue the better
acceleration of the IEP will make up for it but I suspect thats unlikely
over longer distances.

Better acceleration under the wires, yes, but not on diesel north of
Kettering. So you have three zones:

1. SPILL to Bedford. Already electrified, but only designed for 100mph
trains. There was a project to upgrade it for more, faster trains, but I
don't know if that project will continue. If it doesn't, IEPs will have
good acceleration, but lower top speeds than the old diesels.

2. Bedford to Kettering. Newly electrified, suitable for 125 mph electric
or diesel trains. IEPs will outperform the existing diesels.

3. Kettering to Leicester and on to Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield.
Electrification work started, but work will be suspended indefinitely.
Bi-mode IEPs will be able to run, but performance will be worse than
current diesel trains, specially the Meridians.

In message , at 15:20:29 on Wed, 2 Aug
2017, d remarked:

IMO the Thameslink equivalent on the ELL is the Great Northern into Moorgate
and that only goes as far north as Stevenage. All the peterborough trains
AFAIK
are fast trains that stop at very few stations.

The only stations between Bedford and Leicester are Wellingborough,
Kettering and Market Harborough.

And those stations will attract everyone from surrounding villages and towns.

More than the current faster EMT services to London?

Plus its twive the distance of london - stevenage so plenty of scope for
the timekeeping to go pear shaped.

Stevenage is a red herring. The Thameslink services via the ECML will go
as far as Peterborough and Cambridge.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:43:58 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

A class 700 all the way to Leicester? Ouch!

How far further north do you think Leicester is than Peterborough?

By rail, I'd have thought it was nearly 20 miles further?

Very close in mileage. For trains with a similar number of stops it's
just 7 minutes. And that's with diesel on the MML, an electric train
should be able to close the gap significantly.

Or not, as the case may be: the current diesels can travel at up to
125mph, but the wiring to Bedford was only designed for 100mph

Even if the latter is true (I don't recall anyone saying that the MML
electrification to Sheffield would mean re-doing London-Bedford), the
line speed for the InterCity trains south of Bedford isn't as high as
125mph.

running. And IEPs on diesel power probably won't be able to get up to
125mph.

Huh? The InterCity trains on MML will converge upon Meridians/Voyagers,
once the HSTs are retired.

So if the HSTs are replaced by IEPs,

They won't be.

the service may actually slow down.
--
Roland Perry

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 15:37:37 on Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:


A class 700 all the way to Leicester? Ouch!

How far further north do you think Leicester is than Peterborough?

By rail, I'd have thought it was nearly 20 miles further?

Very close in mileage. For trains with a similar number of stops it's
just 7 minutes. And that's with diesel on the MML, an electric train
should be able to close the gap significantly.

Or not, as the case may be: the current diesels can travel at up to
125mph, but the wiring to Bedford was only designed for 100mph
running. And IEPs on diesel power probably won't be able to get up to
125mph. So if the HSTs are replaced by IEPs, the service may actually
slow down.

Thats an interesting point. I suppose the DoT would argue the better
acceleration of the IEP will make up for it but I suspect thats unlikely
over longer distances.

Better acceleration under the wires, yes, but not on diesel north of
Kettering. So you have three zones:

1. SPILL to Bedford. Already electrified, but only designed for 100mph
trains. There was a project to upgrade it for more, faster trains, but I
don't know if that project will continue. If it doesn't, IEPs will have
good acceleration, but lower top speeds than the old diesels.

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

2. Bedford to Kettering. Newly electrified,

Is it, already?

suitable for 125 mph electric
or diesel trains. IEPs will outperform the existing diesels.

3. Kettering to Leicester and on to Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield.
Electrification work started,

Just a few bridge works.

but work will be suspended indefinitely. Bi-mode IEPs will be able to
run, but performance will be worse than current diesel trains,
specially the Meridians.

So keep the Meridians.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 17:46:36 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 14:43:58 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

A class 700 all the way to Leicester? Ouch!

How far further north do you think Leicester is than Peterborough?

By rail, I'd have thought it was nearly 20 miles further?

Very close in mileage. For trains with a similar number of stops it's
just 7 minutes. And that's with diesel on the MML, an electric train
should be able to close the gap significantly.

Or not, as the case may be: the current diesels can travel at up to
125mph, but the wiring to Bedford was only designed for 100mph

Even if the latter is true (I don't recall anyone saying that the MML
electrification to Sheffield would mean re-doing London-Bedford), the
line speed for the InterCity trains south of Bedford isn't as high as
125mph.

Isn't it over 100mph in places?


running. And IEPs on diesel power probably won't be able to get up to
125mph.

Huh? The InterCity trains on MML will converge upon Meridians/Voyagers,
once the HSTs are retired.

Where will they get them from?


So if the HSTs are replaced by IEPs,

They won't be.

I take it you don't read any railway magazines?

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 17:48:10 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 15:37:37 on Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:


A class 700 all the way to Leicester? Ouch!

How far further north do you think Leicester is than Peterborough?

By rail, I'd have thought it was nearly 20 miles further?

Very close in mileage. For trains with a similar number of stops it's
just 7 minutes. And that's with diesel on the MML, an electric train
should be able to close the gap significantly.

Or not, as the case may be: the current diesels can travel at up to
125mph, but the wiring to Bedford was only designed for 100mph
running. And IEPs on diesel power probably won't be able to get up to
125mph. So if the HSTs are replaced by IEPs, the service may actually
slow down.

Thats an interesting point. I suppose the DoT would argue the better
acceleration of the IEP will make up for it but I suspect thats unlikely
over longer distances.

Better acceleration under the wires, yes, but not on diesel north of
Kettering. So you have three zones:

1. SPILL to Bedford. Already electrified, but only designed for 100mph
trains. There was a project to upgrade it for more, faster trains, but I
don't know if that project will continue. If it doesn't, IEPs will have
good acceleration, but lower top speeds than the old diesels.

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...


2. Bedford to Kettering. Newly electrified,

Is it, already?

Not completed, but intended to be.


suitable for 125 mph electric
or diesel trains. IEPs will outperform the existing diesels.

3. Kettering to Leicester and on to Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield.
Electrification work started,

Just a few bridge works.

but work will be suspended indefinitely. Bi-mode IEPs will be able to
run, but performance will be worse than current diesel trains,
specially the Meridians.

So keep the Meridians.

Yes, but not the HSTs.

In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:41:37 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:52:28 on Wed, 2 Aug
2017, d remarked:

if you extended Thameslink that far north.

How far further north do you think Leicester is than Peterborough?

IMO the Thameslink equivalent on the ELL is the Great Northern into
Moorgate and that only goes as far north as Stevenage. All the
peterborough trains AFAIK
are fast trains that stop at very few stations.

I know you think it's above you to actually check before committing hands to
keyboard but I think you'll find that Thameslink services to Peterborough
start next year. Google "Thameslink Timetable 2018".

It will be a half-hourly service to Horsham calling at all stations between
Peterborough and Hatfield plus Potters Bar and Finsbury Park as far as the
GN section is concerned. This is as the present hourly slow GN trains from
King's Cross to Peterborough. They also replace present hourly semi-fast
trains off-peak though some extra peak trains to King's Cross will remain.
The latter will be the main use for residual class 365 units.

GTR have already constructed some stabling sidings at Peterborough to
accommodate the trains.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:19:14 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

A class 700 all the way to Leicester? Ouch!

How far further north do you think Leicester is than Peterborough?

By rail, I'd have thought it was nearly 20 miles further?

Very close in mileage.

Hardly: here are the actual figures:
Peterborough: 76m 29h (76.36m)
Leicester: 99m 07ch (99.09m)

So Leicester is almost 23 miles further from London, a bit more than my
quick initial guess. I note that you describe a 30% difference as 'very
close'. I'll remember that the next time you nit-pick over much smaller
differences.

Perhaps you should know the answers *before* setting challenges for people
more than capable of doing their own research?

In message , at 20:27:13 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

1. SPILL to Bedford. Already electrified, but only designed for 100mph
trains. There was a project to upgrade it for more, faster trains, but I
don't know if that project will continue. If it doesn't, IEPs will have
good acceleration, but lower top speeds than the old diesels.

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

2. Bedford to Kettering. Newly electrified,

Is it, already?

Not completed, but intended to be.

We are talking about NR and Grayling here. The only thing you can
reasonably expect is that whatever they claim today may change tomorrow.

suitable for 125 mph electric
or diesel trains. IEPs will outperform the existing diesels.

3. Kettering to Leicester and on to Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield.
Electrification work started,

Just a few bridge works.

but work will be suspended indefinitely. Bi-mode IEPs will be able to
run, but performance will be worse than current diesel trains,
specially the Meridians.

So keep the Meridians.

Yes, but not the HSTs.

There's only one tph (to Nottingham) operated by HSTs, and now
electrification has been cancelled they'll have to find something else
to replace the HST. But I doubt it'll be IEPs.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 20:26:51 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 17:46:36 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 14:43:58 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

A class 700 all the way to Leicester? Ouch!

How far further north do you think Leicester is than Peterborough?

By rail, I'd have thought it was nearly 20 miles further?

Very close in mileage. For trains with a similar number of stops it's
just 7 minutes. And that's with diesel on the MML, an electric train
should be able to close the gap significantly.

Or not, as the case may be: the current diesels can travel at up to
125mph, but the wiring to Bedford was only designed for 100mph

Even if the latter is true (I don't recall anyone saying that the MML
electrification to Sheffield would mean re-doing London-Bedford), the
line speed for the InterCity trains south of Bedford isn't as high as
125mph.

Isn't it over 100mph in places?

Why does that matter - it's 4 track so the Meridians and Thameslink
trains can be segregated.

running. And IEPs on diesel power probably won't be able to get up to
125mph.

Huh? The InterCity trains on MML will converge upon Meridians/Voyagers,
once the HSTs are retired.

Where will they get them from?

They only need enough for 1tph.

So if the HSTs are replaced by IEPs,

They won't be.

I take it you don't read any railway magazines?

I don't read magazines yet to be printed. MML electrification was only
cancelled ten days ago.
--
Roland Perry