On 2017\08\09 22:15, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/08/2017 21:08, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\09 17:59, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Tue, 08 Aug 2017 20:50:43 +0100, Graham Murray
wrote:

e27002 aurora writes:

The whole thing is pitiful. The Nine Elms flyover needs to be torn
down and replaced with a flyover to take the Windsor lines over the
fast-main pair. Bournemouth and Portsmouth passengers should be
arriving into the "International" platforms, not Staines and Windsor
passengers.

Why? Before the Waterloo International conversion, the Windsor line
services always used the high numbered platforms.

IMHO it makes more sense for the longer distance, higher fare paying
passengers, to come into the more modern, better appointed facility.
There may also be opportunities for further platform and train
lengthening. Clearly opinions vary.

I think that is the maddest suggestion I've ever seen here. Surely it
would be better value for money to leave the flyover alone and
renovate the low numbered platforms up to the quality of the
international platforms, so that all passengers would have a high
quality terminal.

I doubt there's a lot of difference between the actual platforms.


I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, except for the pretty roof.
But imagine that the east half of Victoria was tarted up, and they
decided to build a flyover so the Brighton lines could use it. Then
twenty years later the west half is tarted up to be nicer than the east
half, so they demolish the flyover. Then twenty years later they tart up
the east side again and rebuild the flyover. Even Michael Bell wouldn't
dream of advocating such a thing.

In uk.railway Basil Jet wrote:
I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, except for the pretty roof.
But imagine that the east half of Victoria was tarted up, and they
decided to build a flyover so the Brighton lines could use it. Then
twenty years later the west half is tarted up to be nicer than the east
half, so they demolish the flyover. Then twenty years later they tart up
the east side again and rebuild the flyover. Even Michael Bell wouldn't
dream of advocating such a thing.

Losing the flyover would enable reinstatement of an 8th track through
Queenstown Road (where it goes from 8 down to 7 to accommodate it, then 8
once the flyover has merged). I don't know enough about the (complex) track
layout and platforming to know if that would give any useful increase in
capacity.

If the infrastructure elsewhere limits trains to ~240m long, there's no
advantage for anyone from the much longer platforms to be had.
(is there any realistic prospect of longer trains out of any part of
Waterloo?)

Theo

In article ,
(Theo) wrote:

If the infrastructure elsewhere limits trains to ~240m long, there's
no advantage for anyone from the much longer platforms to be had.
(is there any realistic prospect of longer trains out of any part of
Waterloo?)

Where do you get 240m from? 10-coach trains are about 200m long.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article ,
(Theo) wrote:

If the infrastructure elsewhere limits trains to ~240m long, there's
no advantage for anyone from the much longer platforms to be had.
(is there any realistic prospect of longer trains out of any part of
Waterloo?)

Where do you get 240m from? 10-coach trains are about 200m long.

Waterloo carries two kinds of stock:

20m stock, for instance 455s and 450s, that come in units of 4 cars. The
maxium length of a train is 3 units, ie 12x 20m = 240m
23m stock, for instance 444s and soon 442s, that come in units of 5 cars.
The maximum length of a train is 2 units, ie 10x 23m = 230m

Thus the longest trains currently operating out of Waterloo are 240m (or
thereabouts). The question is: would any of the routes out of Waterloo be
able to handle longer trains? If not, then the longer length of the
International platforms is moot.

(apart perhaps from Spud's hypothetical stabling of 16 car trains, which
- would be 320m but noting that most of the stock would need to be stabled
at the non-London end of routes to deal with peak flows).

Theo

Theo wrote:
wrote:
In article ,
(Theo) wrote:

If the infrastructure elsewhere limits trains to ~240m long, there's
no advantage for anyone from the much longer platforms to be had.
(is there any realistic prospect of longer trains out of any part of
Waterloo?)

Where do you get 240m from? 10-coach trains are about 200m long.

Waterloo carries two kinds of stock:

20m stock, for instance 455s and 450s, that come in units of 4 cars. The
maxium length of a train is 3 units, ie 12x 20m = 240m
23m stock, for instance 444s and soon 442s, that come in units of 5 cars.
The maximum length of a train is 2 units, ie 10x 23m = 230m

Thus the longest trains currently operating out of Waterloo are 240m (or
thereabouts). The question is: would any of the routes out of Waterloo be
able to handle longer trains? If not, then the longer length of the
International platforms is moot.

(apart perhaps from Spud's hypothetical stabling of 16 car trains, which
- would be 320m but noting that most of the stock would need to be stabled
at the non-London end of routes to deal with peak flows).

In looking again at my pictures from this morning, it looks like one 8-car
train is indeed parked behind another, presumably (but not necessarily)
also an 8-car train:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/36312398742/in/album-72157684802951344/lightbox/

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

On 2017\08\10 21:55, Recliner wrote:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!

In message , at 03:40:45 on Fri, 11 Aug
2017, Basil Jet remarked:
Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front

coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!

Also, unless you first walk to the very front of the train, and then
back, how do you know where front 8 starts?

At St Pancras, where one train used to split at Nottingham (front four
to Lincoln) they had an A-frame on the platform to mark the division.
--
Roland Perry

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\10 21:55, Recliner wrote:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!


At certain locations I can understand your confusion - though 'near' and
'far' don't help either if the entrance to the platform is in the middle,
or if it's a multi-platform through station whether or not your train is
already present when you arrive on the platform (especially if it's an
unfamiliar location and you don't know which direction the train will
depart).

However at a terminus station where you walk past stop blocks to get to the
platform I'd have thought that 'front' and 'rear' were fairly obvious
descriptors?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 10 Aug 2017 11:10:54 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

In uk.railway Basil Jet wrote:
I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, except for the pretty roof.
But imagine that the east half of Victoria was tarted up, and they
decided to build a flyover so the Brighton lines could use it. Then
twenty years later the west half is tarted up to be nicer than the east
half, so they demolish the flyover. Then twenty years later they tart up
the east side again and rebuild the flyover. Even Michael Bell wouldn't
dream of advocating such a thing.

Losing the flyover would enable reinstatement of an 8th track through
Queenstown Road (where it goes from 8 down to 7 to accommodate it, then 8
once the flyover has merged). I don't know enough about the (complex) track
layout and platforming to know if that would give any useful increase in
capacity.

Historically, IIRC, there were four tracks between Waterloo and
Barnes. I do not know how much the reduction around the Nine Elms
flyover reduced needed capacity.

If the infrastructure elsewhere limits trains to ~240m long, there's no
advantage for anyone from the much longer platforms to be had.
(is there any realistic prospect of longer trains out of any part of
Waterloo?)

Probably not. I wonder how long are the platforms at Southampton?

On 11/08/2017 08:43, e27002 aurora wrote:
On 10 Aug 2017 11:10:54 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

In uk.railway Basil Jet wrote:
I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, except for the pretty roof.
But imagine that the east half of Victoria was tarted up, and they
decided to build a flyover so the Brighton lines could use it. Then
twenty years later the west half is tarted up to be nicer than the east
half, so they demolish the flyover. Then twenty years later they tart up
the east side again and rebuild the flyover. Even Michael Bell wouldn't
dream of advocating such a thing.

Losing the flyover would enable reinstatement of an 8th track through
Queenstown Road (where it goes from 8 down to 7 to accommodate it, then 8
once the flyover has merged). I don't know enough about the (complex) track
layout and platforming to know if that would give any useful increase in
capacity.

Historically, IIRC, there were four tracks between Waterloo and
Barnes. I do not know how much the reduction around the Nine Elms
flyover reduced needed capacity.

If the infrastructure elsewhere limits trains to ~240m long, there's no
advantage for anyone from the much longer platforms to be had.
(is there any realistic prospect of longer trains out of any part of
Waterloo?)

Probably not. I wonder how long are the platforms at Southampton?


10 car 444, 12 car 450

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.