On 16/09/2017 16:36, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:


It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?
It's not guaranteed.
Most criminals are caught due to having some form of previous
interaction with the Police and establishing the end of a trail, eg a
bank robbers trail may have started when he nicked some sweets from a
corner shop as a 13 year old and became one to watch and whose habits
and haunts become known.
With a terrorist the trail may have been started by intelligence
services observing their coming and goings with other known people
doing suspicious activity or being seen at certain buildings.
In both case if the perpetuator of a bank robbery or a terrorist act
is doing it for absolutely the first time and is a lone wolf it
becomes much harder, surveillance videos will not help if the person
in the image cannot be recognized or are disguised unless they happen
to turn up again elsewhere unguarded.
There are experts at analyzing videos but as an example of how
difficult it is to find someone with no previous look at the Jogger
who pushed the woman into the path of a Bus recently, not even
disguised, reasonable video from the street and the bus, loads of
people about.
They still have not identified anyone enough to bring charges

Indeed, and they've wrongly arrested two innocent joggers so far. You'd
think the jogger should be relatively easy to find, as his home location
can be pinned down to quite a narrow area,

Not necessarily in central London, could have jogged from his place of
work and back (he recrossed the bridge shortly after the incident) and
actually lives somewhere in the London commuter area, aka England.

and he must have been caught by
many other cameras on his route.


But who is going to put in the effort to look at them all, once he left
the bridge he could have gone in any direction.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 16/09/2017 16:36, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:


It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?
It's not guaranteed.
Most criminals are caught due to having some form of previous
interaction with the Police and establishing the end of a trail, eg a
bank robbers trail may have started when he nicked some sweets from a
corner shop as a 13 year old and became one to watch and whose habits
and haunts become known.
With a terrorist the trail may have been started by intelligence
services observing their coming and goings with other known people
doing suspicious activity or being seen at certain buildings.
In both case if the perpetuator of a bank robbery or a terrorist act
is doing it for absolutely the first time and is a lone wolf it
becomes much harder, surveillance videos will not help if the person
in the image cannot be recognized or are disguised unless they happen
to turn up again elsewhere unguarded.
There are experts at analyzing videos but as an example of how
difficult it is to find someone with no previous look at the Jogger
who pushed the woman into the path of a Bus recently, not even
disguised, reasonable video from the street and the bus, loads of
people about.
They still have not identified anyone enough to bring charges

Indeed, and they've wrongly arrested two innocent joggers so far. You'd
think the jogger should be relatively easy to find, as his home location
can be pinned down to quite a narrow area,

Not necessarily in central London, could have jogged from his place of
work and back (he recrossed the bridge shortly after the incident) and
actually lives somewhere in the London commuter area, aka England.

Yes, good point.


and he must have been caught by
many other cameras on his route.


But who is going to put in the effort to look at them all, once he left
the bridge he could have gone in any direction.

Yes, but they can work outwards from the end of the bridge to trace his
route. That area must have plenty of cameras. And the case is high profile
enough that it may be worth the effort.

However, if, within a few days of the incident, they didn't realise that
they needed to do it, the footage from most of the cameras may not have
been retained.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 15:36:12 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:


It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?
It's not guaranteed.
Most criminals are caught due to having some form of previous
interaction with the Police and establishing the end of a trail, eg a
bank robbers trail may have started when he nicked some sweets from a
corner shop as a 13 year old and became one to watch and whose habits
and haunts become known.
With a terrorist the trail may have been started by intelligence
services observing their coming and goings with other known people
doing suspicious activity or being seen at certain buildings.
In both case if the perpetuator of a bank robbery or a terrorist act
is doing it for absolutely the first time and is a lone wolf it
becomes much harder, surveillance videos will not help if the person
in the image cannot be recognized or are disguised unless they happen
to turn up again elsewhere unguarded.
There are experts at analyzing videos but as an example of how
difficult it is to find someone with no previous look at the Jogger
who pushed the woman into the path of a Bus recently, not even
disguised, reasonable video from the street and the bus, loads of
people about.
They still have not identified anyone enough to bring charges

Indeed, and they've wrongly arrested two innocent joggers so far. You'd
think the jogger should be relatively easy to find, as his home location
can be pinned down to quite a narrow area, and he must have been caught by
many other cameras on his route.

As would the bomber. The only question would be how long it took to
back-track his movements. It takes people time - but he must have
boarded the train somewhere with his bucket-in-a-LIDL-bag.

On 16/09/2017 17:37, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 16/09/2017 16:36, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:


It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?
It's not guaranteed.
Most criminals are caught due to having some form of previous
interaction with the Police and establishing the end of a trail, eg a
bank robbers trail may have started when he nicked some sweets from a
corner shop as a 13 year old and became one to watch and whose habits
and haunts become known.
With a terrorist the trail may have been started by intelligence
services observing their coming and goings with other known people
doing suspicious activity or being seen at certain buildings.
In both case if the perpetuator of a bank robbery or a terrorist act
is doing it for absolutely the first time and is a lone wolf it
becomes much harder, surveillance videos will not help if the person
in the image cannot be recognized or are disguised unless they happen
to turn up again elsewhere unguarded.
There are experts at analyzing videos but as an example of how
difficult it is to find someone with no previous look at the Jogger
who pushed the woman into the path of a Bus recently, not even
disguised, reasonable video from the street and the bus, loads of
people about.
They still have not identified anyone enough to bring charges

Indeed, and they've wrongly arrested two innocent joggers so far. You'd
think the jogger should be relatively easy to find, as his home location
can be pinned down to quite a narrow area,

Not necessarily in central London, could have jogged from his place of
work and back (he recrossed the bridge shortly after the incident) and
actually lives somewhere in the London commuter area, aka England.

Yes, good point.


and he must have been caught by
many other cameras on his route.


But who is going to put in the effort to look at them all, once he left
the bridge he could have gone in any direction.

Yes, but they can work outwards from the end of the bridge to trace his
route. That area must have plenty of cameras. And the case is high profile
enough that it may be worth the effort.

Lots of cameras at the north end of the bridge, possibly not so many at
the south end.


However, if, within a few days of the incident, they didn't realise that
they needed to do it, the footage from most of the cameras may not have
been retained.


It took quite a while to be made public. Don't know how long footage is
kept on modern CCTV but doubt it is more than week at the outside.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 16/09/2017 19:10, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 15:36:12 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:


It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?
It's not guaranteed.
Most criminals are caught due to having some form of previous
interaction with the Police and establishing the end of a trail, eg a
bank robbers trail may have started when he nicked some sweets from a
corner shop as a 13 year old and became one to watch and whose habits
and haunts become known.
With a terrorist the trail may have been started by intelligence
services observing their coming and goings with other known people
doing suspicious activity or being seen at certain buildings.
In both case if the perpetuator of a bank robbery or a terrorist act
is doing it for absolutely the first time and is a lone wolf it
becomes much harder, surveillance videos will not help if the person
in the image cannot be recognized or are disguised unless they happen
to turn up again elsewhere unguarded.
There are experts at analyzing videos but as an example of how
difficult it is to find someone with no previous look at the Jogger
who pushed the woman into the path of a Bus recently, not even
disguised, reasonable video from the street and the bus, loads of
people about.
They still have not identified anyone enough to bring charges

Indeed, and they've wrongly arrested two innocent joggers so far. You'd
think the jogger should be relatively easy to find, as his home location
can be pinned down to quite a narrow area, and he must have been caught by
many other cameras on his route.

As would the bomber. The only question would be how long it took to
back-track his movements. It takes people time - but he must have
boarded the train somewhere with his bucket-in-a-LIDL-bag.


Limited to 5 possible places and a fairly short window of time so fairly
easy to go through.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 16/09/2017 17:37, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 16/09/2017 16:36, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:


It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?
It's not guaranteed.
Most criminals are caught due to having some form of previous
interaction with the Police and establishing the end of a trail, eg a
bank robbers trail may have started when he nicked some sweets from a
corner shop as a 13 year old and became one to watch and whose habits
and haunts become known.
With a terrorist the trail may have been started by intelligence
services observing their coming and goings with other known people
doing suspicious activity or being seen at certain buildings.
In both case if the perpetuator of a bank robbery or a terrorist act
is doing it for absolutely the first time and is a lone wolf it
becomes much harder, surveillance videos will not help if the person
in the image cannot be recognized or are disguised unless they happen
to turn up again elsewhere unguarded.
There are experts at analyzing videos but as an example of how
difficult it is to find someone with no previous look at the Jogger
who pushed the woman into the path of a Bus recently, not even
disguised, reasonable video from the street and the bus, loads of
people about.
They still have not identified anyone enough to bring charges

Indeed, and they've wrongly arrested two innocent joggers so far. You'd
think the jogger should be relatively easy to find, as his home location
can be pinned down to quite a narrow area,

Not necessarily in central London, could have jogged from his place of
work and back (he recrossed the bridge shortly after the incident) and
actually lives somewhere in the London commuter area, aka England.

Yes, good point.


and he must have been caught by
many other cameras on his route.


But who is going to put in the effort to look at them all, once he left
the bridge he could have gone in any direction.

Yes, but they can work outwards from the end of the bridge to trace his
route. That area must have plenty of cameras. And the case is high profile
enough that it may be worth the effort.

Lots of cameras at the north end of the bridge, possibly not so many at
the south end.


However, if, within a few days of the incident, they didn't realise that
they needed to do it, the footage from most of the cameras may not have
been retained.


It took quite a while to be made public. Don't know how long footage is
kept on modern CCTV but doubt it is more than week at the outside.

Yes, that may be the weak link.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 10:20:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Martin Edwards wrote:
On 9/15/2017 10:15 AM, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:47:08 +0100
e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders chemicals that
overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545

There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
"the religion of piece" proselytizing.

If it is terrorism then it'll almost certainly be down to followers of the
peaceful not in any way militant religion of islam.

It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?

I dunno why youse guys in the UK aren't (constantly?) up in arms over
the seemingly massive surveillance you appear to live under.

And please don't launch the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have
nothing to fear" defence at me.

To an outsider, watching your exports of TV programming involving
fictional crime (e.g. the rather ancient series 'Scott and Bailey')
suggests that a mind-boggling Big Brother watch-it has been around for
more than a few years.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 07:55:38 +0100, Martin Edwards
wrote:

On 9/15/2017 11:18 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 15/09/17 09:47, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders
chemicals that
overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545

There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
"the religion of piece" proselytizing.


Seen a picture of the device on twitter with wires hanging out.

And my money's on some jihadi ****er. We shall see.

An uncle of mine was an army officer and did time against Christian
terrorists in Cyprus.

One would expect that an uncle, were he such, would be yours!

Maybe, he was just one of your uncles.

ducks

Nobody wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 10:20:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Martin Edwards wrote:
On 9/15/2017 10:15 AM, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:47:08 +0100
e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders chemicals that
overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545

There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
"the religion of piece" proselytizing.

If it is terrorism then it'll almost certainly be down to followers of the
peaceful not in any way militant religion of islam.

It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?

I dunno why youse guys in the UK aren't (constantly?) up in arms over
the seemingly massive surveillance you appear to live under.

If anything, people seem to want more of it, as they feel safer with it.
This latest Parsons Green case seems to be an example where it paid off.
That may well also happen with the homicidal bridge jogger.


And please don't launch the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have
nothing to fear" defence at me.

Why not? It's exactly what most people think.


To an outsider, watching your exports of TV programming involving
fictional crime (e.g. the rather ancient series 'Scott and Bailey')
suggests that a mind-boggling Big Brother watch-it has been around for
more than a few years.

Yes, it's been around for many years.

But instead of the early grainy, very low res, fuzzy, extended play VHS
images on worn-out tapes, it's now HD quality, sharp, clear, digital
images. Perhaps some are now 4k video quality?

They can now also be centrally monitored and stored for much longer. And,
in some cases, the images are automatically computer-scanned for car number
plates (ANPR) and known faces.

Your time will come: this is one area where Britain leads and the world
follows.

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 00:12:50 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Nobody wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 10:20:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Martin Edwards wrote:
On 9/15/2017 10:15 AM, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:47:08 +0100
e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders chemicals that
overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545

There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
"the religion of piece" proselytizing.

If it is terrorism then it'll almost certainly be down to followers of the
peaceful not in any way militant religion of islam.

It does appear to be terrorism.

Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?

I dunno why youse guys in the UK aren't (constantly?) up in arms over
the seemingly massive surveillance you appear to live under.

If anything, people seem to want more of it, as they feel safer with it.

And 'they' don't really think/consider beyond, as to how it affects
their individual right to unobserved movement.

The state (in Canaduh anyway) has no right to know where I might or
might not be.

And please don't launch the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have
nothing to fear" defence at me.

Why not? It's exactly what most people think.

That's a surrender to un-involved citizenship. Big word:
acquiescence.



To an outsider, watching your exports of TV programming involving
fictional crime (e.g. the rather ancient series 'Scott and Bailey')
suggests that a mind-boggling Big Brother watch-it has been around for
more than a few years.

Yes, it's been around for many years.

Sad.

Your time will come: this is one area where Britain leads and the world
follows.

Interestingly, the crime rate in Canaduh has been dropping for
decades.

Yes, Bad Things happen... but the occurrence relative to overall
population ain't growing.

Perception of safety, at least in my and general observation in our
major urban areas, is stable or improving... and remember, we're a
welcoming, multi-cultural society.