In message , at 09:40:25 on Wed, 27
Sep 2017, Robin9 remarked:

If Uber go out of business, their drivers will not abandon their
careers. They will drive for another minicab firm and their cars
will still be on the roads.

There's 40,000 of them with the contrary painted on the shrouds they are
waving.
--
Roland Perry

I haven't seen that, but even if it's true, so what? It has been
pretty well established and accepted that most Uber drivers
also work with local minicab firms. (This is why Uber can provide
a car so quickly in the suburbs)

The question is not what propaganda Uber drivers are currently
disseminating but what will be in their interests if TfL win in court.

In message , at 18:20:11 on Wed, 27
Sep 2017, Robin9 remarked:

I haven't seen that,

[sadly snipped information]

but even if it's true, so what? It has been pretty well established and
accepted that most Uber drivers also work with local minicab firms.
(This is why Uber can provide a car so quickly in the suburbs)

The Uber model allows a degree of flexible working which is hard to
replicate with conventional minicab firms.

One quote in the press: "[my dad] has diabetes so it's important he can
work when he wants so he can attend his medical appointments. Sometimes
he will work 20 hours a day and earn around £300 and on others he will
only make £8 a day."

Thanks, but no thanks, to being one of his passengers in hour 19. £15/hr
is verging on modern slavery, but the well-heeled punters lap it up.
--
Roland Perry

Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

In message , at 09:49:01 on Thu, 28
Sep 2017, Robin9 remarked:

[excessive snippage]

Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

Why didn't they do that *before* Uber arrived?

You are saying that the Uber app wasn't facilitating extra cabs after
all.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:49:01 on Thu, 28
Sep 2017, Robin9 remarked:

[excessive snippage]

Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

Why didn't they do that *before* Uber arrived?

You are saying that the Uber app wasn't facilitating extra cabs after
all.

It almost certainly increased the number of minicabs. But if Uber really
does get shut down in a year or so, lots of other similar apps will be
waiting to take its place. In effect, Uber established and validated a new
market in London, and even if it is forced out, that market won't vanish
with it.

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 09:50:35 on Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Recliner
remarked:
Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

Why didn't they do that *before* Uber arrived?

You are saying that the Uber app wasn't facilitating extra cabs after
all.

It almost certainly increased the number of minicabs. But if Uber really
does get shut down in a year or so, lots of other similar apps will be
waiting to take its place. In effect, Uber established and validated a new
market in London, and even if it is forced out, that market won't vanish
with it.

Let's hope the successors treat their drivers better, and by proxy their
passengers (nailing down stuff like CRBs, insurance, personal safety)
and greater respect for other road users.

And when I say successor*s* that's deliberate. Uber is currently a
whisker away from playing the "too big to be allowed to fail" card.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:50:35 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:49:01 on Thu, 28
Sep 2017, Robin9 remarked:

[excessive snippage]

Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

Why didn't they do that *before* Uber arrived?

You are saying that the Uber app wasn't facilitating extra cabs after
all.

It almost certainly increased the number of minicabs. But if Uber really
does get shut down in a year or so, lots of other similar apps will be
waiting to take its place. In effect, Uber established and validated a new
market in London, and even if it is forced out, that market won't vanish
with it.

Lyft will be starting up in london soon apparently. At then least all the
whining millennials will STFU since the fragile little darlings will be able to
go back to being chauffeured door to door once more just like mummy used to do
for them, instead of slumming it on the tube or night bus with adults.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 07:40:16PM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

?15/hr is verging on modern slavery, but the well-heeled punters lap
it up.

Fifteen quid an hour, assuming an 8 hour day and 5 day working week,
puts you well above the national average income. OK, so Uber's
independent contractors then have expenses to pay from that, but even so
to call it "modern slavery" is pretty silly.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

If you can't imagine how I do something, it's
because I have a better imagination than you

In message , at 15:13:57
on Thu, 28 Sep 2017, David Cantrell remarked:

?15/hr is verging on modern slavery, but the well-heeled punters lap
it up.

Fifteen quid an hour, assuming an 8 hour day and 5 day working week,
puts you well above the national average income.

I bet that national average isn't weighted for full time/part time/gig
workers.

OK, so Uber's
independent contractors then have expenses to pay from that, but even so
to call it "modern slavery" is pretty silly.

Given they are on zero-hours "contracts", work unsocial hours, have no
pensions, holiday or sick pay (the case for those is in the courts right
now) and reduced rights to benefits because of being self-employed.

And the elephant in the room is that it's the gross pay. Knock off 25%
for Uber's commissions, then most estimates for the cost of car rental,
petrol and valeting come in at about £300/week, so for a 60hr week you'd
see something like:

60 x 15 gross = 900
less 25% = 675
less £300 = 375

so that's more like £6.25/hr now, and under minimum wage, plus all the
risks of running your own business.
--
Roland Perry