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| London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London. |
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#31
October 13th 17, 01:54 PM
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Oxford to London commute
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#32
October 13th 17, 02:02 PM
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Oxford to London commute
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#34
October 13th 17, 05:55 PM
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Oxford to London commute
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 08:37:43 on Fri, 13 Oct 2017, remarked: I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is less than clement. Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g. "February") you're actually making things worse, not better. Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either. Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. One of the driest parts of the country. It's the times of day that are important. The tendency not to rain at commuting times is national. But we are talking about Oxford, not Manchester. It isn't much wetter than Cambridge. Traffic is catastrophically worse on wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times. As long as you don't mind turning up at work drenched. Do you cycle to work? How many times has that happened to you? In over 25 years working for Pye/Philips/Simoco it happened to me less often than the number of fingers on one hand. And that's in either direction. On the way home, recovery is simple anyway. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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#35
October 13th 17, 05:55 PM
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Oxford to London commute
In article ,
(Robin) wrote: On 13/10/2017 14:37, wrote: snip The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible. I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is less than clement. Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g. "February") you're actually making things worse, not better. Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either. Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times. I am unclear. Are you arguing that Someone Somewhere was: a) wrong in his observation that the number of commuting cyclists falls when the weather is bad or b) wrong about the consequences for other modes of transport - eg because the missing cyclists work from home when the weather is bad? Or is it something else entirely? That the effect on cycling is surprisingly is marginal. Traffic is mainly worse because it is driving slower due the the adverse driving conditions. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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#36
October 13th 17, 05:55 PM
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Oxford to London commute
In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote: On 13/10/2017 14:37, wrote: In article , (Someone Somewhere) wrote: On 13/10/2017 02:32, wrote: In article , (GeorgeK) wrote: Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants, bars, shopping street, etc). The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam. When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be more convenient though? Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job 2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive. The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible. I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is less than clement. Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g. "February") you're actually making things worse, not better. Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work. No it's not - it's observational that during poor weather (or winter) the number of cyclists reduces dramatically. Do you dispute this? Have you got the traffic counts? There appears to be much more traffic. While a bit of that is cyclists using their cars but the main effect is because cars are driving slower due to the conditions. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either. That's not the point, the point is cyclists seem fickle about the weather but presumably will still make their journey which presumably will be via tube / trian / taxi / uber / car. Ones like contributors to this thread maybe. How many of you ever cycle? Even since I retired I cycle regularly in central London. Sometimes it rains too. Fortunately reality is becoming more apparent in places where cycling is properly supported. Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times. That may well be, but a) this is still uk.transport.london however many times you wish to bring Cambridge into it and b) I suggest that when introducing segregated cycle lanes that reduce overall throughput of people (excepting cyclists) then this needs to be taken into account. I'm not arguing that cyclists shouldn't have safe routes to follow, or similar, just that cyclists have differences that aren't shared by other modes of transport which means they don't use the road capacity with the uniformity of other users. Similarly it could be fairly argued that on days of bus strikes, penalties for other vehicles using bus lanes should be removed, but such events happen far less frequently than inclement weather (probably less than 0.1%). Again, I'm not arguing that such measures are practical - they probably aren't (reasonably) - just that such a modal shift is not as simplistic is as often presented (creating safe, segregated cycle lanes will mean people shift to bikes and overall journey times will decrease and not increase) I worked in London for nearly a decade and cycled a lot between westminster and main line railway stations as well as between my Cambridge home and the station. I know perfectly well what the advantages of cycling are, as well the the largely imagined issued raised here. Cycling meant shorter commutes and a predictability of journey times just not available by car or tube. So when I left the office I knew with far greater confidence which train I would catch than when I took the tube. In the mornings after I stayed at my parents' in Putney, I could cycle in in much the same time as taking the tube, using low traffic and car-free routes (rather than a cycle super-highway composed mainly of paint), and, unlike on the tube, I got a seat. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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#37
October 13th 17, 07:58 PM
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Oxford to London commute
On 13/10/2017 18:55, wrote:
In article , (Robin) wrote: On 13/10/2017 14:37, wrote: snip The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible. I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is less than clement. Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g. "February") you're actually making things worse, not better. Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either. Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times. I am unclear. Are you arguing that Someone Somewhere was: a) wrong in his observation that the number of commuting cyclists falls when the weather is bad or b) wrong about the consequences for other modes of transport - eg because the missing cyclists work from home when the weather is bad? Or is it something else entirely? That the effect on cycling is surprisingly is marginal. Traffic is mainly worse because it is driving slower due the the adverse driving conditions. So it's (a) - ie you are disagreeing with Someone's observation about the variation in the number of cycling commuters with weather. I have no idea which of you are right. But may I ask if your "marginal" comes from your personal observations of CS1 or CS2 etc, or from TfL figures, or what? -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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#38
October 13th 17, 11:50 PM
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Oxford to London commute
On Friday, 13 October 2017 14:37:45 UTC+1, wrote:
In article , (Someone Somewhere) wrote: On 13/10/2017 02:32, wrote: In article , (GeorgeK) wrote: Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants, bars, shopping street, etc). The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam. When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be more convenient though? Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job 2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive. The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible. I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is less than clement. Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g. "February") you're actually making things worse, not better. Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either. Look at Cambridge Oh, do we really have to? Is there an unwritten law that every thread on this newsgroup will get to Cambridge or business class air travel eventually? The poor (well, not poor if considering commuting to London from there) original poster was asking about travel to and from Oxford, not Cambridge. |
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#39
October 14th 17, 12:26 AM
posted to uk.transport.london
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Oxford to London commute
In article ,
(Mark) wrote: On Friday, 13 October 2017 14:37:45 UTC+1, wrote: In article , (Someone Somewhere) wrote: On 13/10/2017 02:32, wrote: In article , (GeorgeK) wrote: Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants, bars, shopping street, etc). The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam. When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be more convenient though? Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job 2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive. The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible. I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is less than clement. Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g. "February") you're actually making things worse, not better. Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either. Look at Cambridge Oh, do we really have to? Is there an unwritten law that every thread on this newsgroup will get to Cambridge or business class air travel eventually? The poor (well, not poor if considering commuting to London from there) original poster was asking about travel to and from Oxford, not Cambridge. That's because Cambridge is the one UK place with cycling to work levels similar to those in the Netherlands and Oxford is one of the next closest, along with parts of central London where this Cambridge cyclist also cycles. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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#40
October 14th 17, 07:37 AM
posted to uk.transport.london
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Oxford to London commute
On 13/10/2017 18:55, wrote:
In article , (Someone Somewhere) wrote: On 13/10/2017 14:37, wrote: In article , (Someone Somewhere) wrote: On 13/10/2017 02:32, wrote: In article , (GeorgeK) wrote: Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants, bars, shopping street, etc). The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam. When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be more convenient though? Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job 2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive. The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible. I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is less than clement. Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g. "February") you're actually making things worse, not better. Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work. No it's not - it's observational that during poor weather (or winter) the number of cyclists reduces dramatically. Do you dispute this? Have you got the traffic counts? There appears to be much more traffic. While a bit of that is cyclists using their cars but the main effect is because cars are driving slower due to the conditions. I mentioned a reduction in cyclists - not necessarily an increase in cars - we have other modes of transport in London where people have observed an increase in passengers during inclement weather. Believe me, you don't want to go down the route of insisting I cite evidence, otherwise you may find yourself asked for similar on each and every contentious point you ever make. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either. That's not the point, the point is cyclists seem fickle about the weather but presumably will still make their journey which presumably will be via tube / trian / taxi / uber / car. Ones like contributors to this thread maybe. How many of you ever cycle? Even since I retired I cycle regularly in central London. Sometimes it rains too. Fortunately reality is becoming more apparent in places where cycling is properly supported. Does it matter who cycles or not? I work from home overlooking CS3 between Tower Hill and Canary Wharf. It is absolutely obvious that the number of cyclists drops during bad weather. You appear to be so blinkered about cycling to the point of implying I am lying about what I see - is that really your intention? |
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