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[email protected] · December 22nd 17, 12:34 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,nyc.transit

On 22.12.17 0:33, wrote:
On 21.12.17 23:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:33:34 +0000, "
wrote:

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up
while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans
will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the
latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?

Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem,
unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail

They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).

Changing over at V-Zero on an M-2 will mean a rough start, and is thus
ill-advised.

Are the M-2s still running, by the way? I know that the New Haven Line
EMUs are now mainly M-8, though I was under the impression that
Metro-North were keeping a few around for peak services.

A few M-2s, that is.

[email protected] · December 22nd 17, 12:40 AM posted to uk.transport.london

In article ,
(Charles Ellson) wrote:

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).

Do 378s change on the move now? They used to stop north of Shepherd's Bush
to do so IIRC, an obvious case for changing on the move.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Scott · December 22nd 17, 05:41 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Recliner[_3_] · December 22nd 17, 08:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway

Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
" wrote:
On 18.12.17 10:10, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?

I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.

That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.

Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,

Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

[email protected] · December 24th 17, 04:45 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway

On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.

Recliner[_3_] · December 24th 17, 05:08 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.

Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.

Offramp · December 24th 17, 05:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london

I am nominating this as my THREAD OF THE YEAR!!

Charles Ellson[_2_] · December 24th 17, 07:44 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london

On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.

One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.

Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.

Mark Goodge · December 24th 17, 07:51 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london

On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.

Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.

It depends a lot whose jobs are most under threat. In BR days, with a
shrinking network and declining service, drivers were losing jobs
proportionally faster than other roles on the railway.
Post-privatisation, with expanding use of the railways but a shift
towards driver-only operation, ASLEF is growing again but RMT
membership is in significant decline. Expect ASLEF to suddenly start
being militant again when automated trains reach the mainline.

Mark

[email protected] · December 25th 17, 11:17 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london

On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Recliner wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
in this country.

Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?

Yes, very much so.

Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.

One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.

Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?

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