I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, just
the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time
now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great northern
want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt?

On Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:08:38 UTC+1, wrote:
I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, just
the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time
now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great northern
want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt?

700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The first train is under test on the continent. I believe that they are due in service from the Autumn this year once fleet deliveries start and all of the necessary testing has been completed. So not too long before the 313s start to head to the scrap heap.

--
Paul C
via Google

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 04:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:08:38 UTC+1, wrote:
I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, jus=
t
the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time
now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great no=
rthern
want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt?

700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door=
s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re=
place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir=

One has to wonder why they didn't just specify centre cab doors for all of
them.

Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s?

On 2018\03\28 15:26, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 04:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:08:38 UTC+1, wrote:
I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, jus=
t
the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time
now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great no=
rthern
want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt?

700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door=
s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re=
place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir=

One has to wonder why they didn't just specify centre cab doors for all of
them.

Because then you would have complained that the 8- and 12-car trains had
wasted money on gangway doors which only the 6-car trains needed.

In message , at 14:26:26 on Wed, 28 Mar
2018, remarked:
700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door=
s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re=
place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir=

Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s?

There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:00:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2018\03\28 15:26, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 04:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:08:38 UTC+1, wrote:
I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, jus=
t
the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time
now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great no=
rthern
want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt?

700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door=
s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re=
place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir=

One has to wonder why they didn't just specify centre cab doors for all of
them.

Because then you would have complained that the 8- and 12-car trains had
wasted money on gangway doors which only the 6-car trains needed.

So you think fleet interoperatibility is a bad thing then? Marshalling train
lengths was a solved problem in the 19th century.

On 2018\03\28 16:52, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:00:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2018\03\28 15:26, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 04:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:08:38 UTC+1, wrote:
I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, jus=
t
the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time
now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great no=
rthern
want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt?

700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door=
s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re=
place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir=

One has to wonder why they didn't just specify centre cab doors for all of
them.

Because then you would have complained that the 8- and 12-car trains had
wasted money on gangway doors which only the 6-car trains needed.

So you think fleet interoperatibility is a bad thing then?

I think I am less qualified to comment on it here than the people who
made the decision.

Marshalling train
lengths was a solved problem in the 19th century.


With dumb carriages pulled by a loco. In an EMU the compressor goes
under one carriage, the transformer goes under another and so on to
equalise the weight, and I would guess that no combination of six
carriages can be removed from a 12-car 700 to get a functional six car
train, although I don't actually know, but the decision over the stock
was made by someone who did.

Anyway, when the 700s were ordered, they might not have even decided yet
that the Moorgate trains would be from the same manufacturer. If they
told the supplier that they had made that decision, that would drive up
the cost of the latter fleet, unless they signed for both fleets at the
same time, which they might not have been authorised to do.

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:07:33 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2018\03\28 16:52, wrote:
So you think fleet interoperatibility is a bad thing then?

I think I am less qualified to comment on it here than the people who
made the decision.

Long termism rarely seems to come into railway decision making these days.
Cost is all that matters - witness the cheap, rock hard seats in the 700s.
In 10 years time I doubt new trains will even have fabric on their seats,
it'll be bare plastic like in eastern europe.

equalise the weight, and I would guess that no combination of six
carriages can be removed from a 12-car 700 to get a functional six car
train, although I don't actually know, but the decision over the stock
was made by someone who did.

Unlikely. More a case of Siemens presented a product which they bought.

Anyway, when the 700s were ordered, they might not have even decided yet
that the Moorgate trains would be from the same manufacturer. If they

If they didn't then they were bloody fools. But having watched the paddington
program on C5 I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that working for the
railways is where fools end up.

On 28/03/2018 17:07, Basil Jet wrote:

Anyway, when the 700s were ordered, they might not have even decided yet
that the Moorgate trains would be from the same manufacturer. If they

The 700s were bought by DfT through a custom structure, the 717s were
ordered by GTR via a leasing company.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 28/03/2018 16:07, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:26:26 on Wed, 28 Mar
2018, remarked:
700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have
cab door=
s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which
will re=
place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors.
The fir=

Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s?

There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's

No tiolets.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK