In message , at 15:02:01 on
Tue, 1 May 2018, Recliner remarked:
On 01 May 2018 09:07:47 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

In uk.railway Recliner wrote:
Stansted is running at well below its runway capacity. If it ever grows to
need more passenger terminal capacity, it will simply need a new, fourth
satellite replacing the current cargo terminal, with a station on the
transit line running directly underneath. There's plenty of room to move
the cargo handling area to the west, or north of the runway.

There's a plan to build a new arrivals terminal, to the northeast of the
current terminal building:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-39507329

The article says, "Stansted will be the only airport in the UK
operating dedicated arrivals and departures terminals".

A glaring hostage to fortune, in any event.

That's only
half-true, as LHR T3 has long done exactly that.

T3 and, erm, T3? Many airports have segregated terminals, East Midlands
on a small scale, for example.

I'm struggling to find a floorpan, but arrivals is entirely separate.

Passport control is in a newer shed grafted on the eastern end: you can
see it here, from the apron bus-laybys, angling southeast into the
building with four rows of skylights; then another short covered way
into the baggage reclaim area with the darker grey roof, no customs
other than a phone on the wall, and an exit into a lobby/meet-and-greet
area completely separating it from the remainder of the main
[departures] building.

https://goo.gl/maps/SEm14rbGm8m

That will presumably mean some rejigging of pier walkways, or else another
stop on the transit (it's roughly where the depot is now).

Wouldn't they just move the arrival stop on the transit to the
northwest to be in front of the new building, where the depot is now,
and move the depot further to the northwest?

What's the need, the arrivals building is quite narrow (has to fit
between the existing terminal and the Radission). Arrivals platform is
already in the far corner of the existing building.

http://www.stansted-airport-informat...nsted-airport-
terminal-map.gif

the new fourth satellite to be aimed at
full-service airlines, with proper air bridges, business class
lounges, etc,

The two older satellites have air bridges, the airlines mainly just
choose not to use them, and the lounge area on the top floor is
perfectly capable of hosting a business class offering.

One of the numerous "now you see it now you don't" airlines was a
business class only shuttle to the USA.

leaving the existing three satellites purely for lo-cos.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:18:29 on
Tue, 1 May 2018, Recliner remarked:
On Tue, 1 May 2018 07:43:08 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 22:36:36 on Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Recliner
remarked:
On a recent trip through Stansted, I happened to get a position at the
front of the little transit train on the way to Satellite 2 so I whipped
out my pocket camera and took a few pictures.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/sets/72157668434701408

While waiting for the delayed flight in the Satellite, I realised that the
long underground transit ride had actualy brought us back to a satellite
pier that's also connected directly to the terminal building with a
walkway. I was, of course, aware that the underground route has a long
curve, but hadn't realised that it takes you almost back to where you
started.

It's fairly obvious where the satellites are relative to the main
building (by looking out of the window!), so I'm surprised at your
surprise.

It was the underground route of the shuttle that surprised me: I
hadn't realised it went past and under the cargo terminal.

I'm becoming less and less convinced it does.

I'm going by this map, but I can't verify if the underground section is
accurate:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/41802404401/in/photostream/lightbox/



Also, I'd not previously noticed that Satellite 2 had a direct walkway
to the terminal; I'd always assumed it was further to the southwest.

Again, you can see it out of the terminal window!

I'd never noticed, on my few trips through the airport.


It's certainly an unusual route for an airport satellite pier
shuttle, and the convulated route seems to be based on the original plan
for another satellite pier where the cargo terminal now stands.

Did you take a picture of the track from the portal to where the curve
begins, because that would be the most unexpected part for most
travellers.

Yes, it turns out that I did:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...um-72157668434
701408/lightbox/

It's difficult to see the distance, and is it really further from the
portal to the start of the bend, as from the station to the portal (as
suggested by some mapping sources)?


I don't know. I've not spotted any clues to the tunnel's location from
aerial shots/

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 15:35:42 on Tue, 1 May 2018, Recliner
remarked:

On a recent trip through Stansted, I happened to get a position at the
front of the little transit train on the way to Satellite 2 so I whipped
out my pocket camera and took a few pictures.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/sets/72157668434701408

While waiting for the delayed flight in the Satellite, I realised that the
long underground transit ride had actualy brought us back to a satellite
pier that's also connected directly to the terminal building with a
walkway. I was, of course, aware that the underground route has a long
curve, but hadn't realised that it takes you almost back to where you
started.

It's fairly obvious where the satellites are relative to the main
building (by looking out of the window!), so I'm surprised at your
surprise.

It was the underground route of the shuttle that surprised me: I
hadn't realised it went past and under the cargo terminal.

I'm becoming less and less convinced it does.

I'm going by this map, but I can't verify if the underground section is
accurate:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/41802404401/in/photostream/lightbox/

Let's look in the opposite direction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRqbXwmxE4I

At 1:55 the train leaves the existing satellite station and almost
immediately curves round to the left.

Yes, it turns out that I did:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...um-72157668434
701408/lightbox/

It's difficult to see the distance, and is it really further from the
portal to the start of the bend, as from the station to the portal (as
suggested by some mapping sources)?

I don't know. I've not spotted any clues to the tunnel's location from
aerial shots/

I was hoping your [additional] photo showed how far the tunnel went
underground before curving around to the right.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 15:35:42 on Tue, 1 May 2018, Recliner
remarked:

On a recent trip through Stansted, I happened to get a position at the
front of the little transit train on the way to Satellite 2 so I whipped
out my pocket camera and took a few pictures.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/sets/72157668434701408

While waiting for the delayed flight in the Satellite, I realised that the
long underground transit ride had actualy brought us back to a satellite
pier that's also connected directly to the terminal building with a
walkway. I was, of course, aware that the underground route has a long
curve, but hadn't realised that it takes you almost back to where you
started.

It's fairly obvious where the satellites are relative to the main
building (by looking out of the window!), so I'm surprised at your
surprise.

It was the underground route of the shuttle that surprised me: I
hadn't realised it went past and under the cargo terminal.

I'm becoming less and less convinced it does.

I'm going by this map, but I can't verify if the underground section is
accurate:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/41802404401/in/photostream/lightbox/

Let's look in the opposite direction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRqbXwmxE4I

At 1:55 the train leaves the existing satellite station and almost
immediately curves round to the left.


It's interesting that the straight stretch between the station and the
start of the curve looks shorter than between the end of the curve and the
portal, even though the portal is in line with the satellite.


Yes, it turns out that I did:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...um-72157668434
701408/lightbox/

It's difficult to see the distance, and is it really further from the
portal to the start of the bend, as from the station to the portal (as
suggested by some mapping sources)?

I don't know. I've not spotted any clues to the tunnel's location from
aerial shots.

I was hoping your [additional] photo showed how far the tunnel went
underground before curving around to the right.

Well, it does show a longish straight stretch, but you'd have to know the
spacing of the lights to estimate its length.

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 21:49:16 on Tue, 1 May 2018, Recliner
remarked:
It was the underground route of the shuttle that surprised me: I
hadn't realised it went past and under the cargo terminal.

I'm becoming less and less convinced it does.

I'm going by this map, but I can't verify if the underground section is
accurate:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/41802404401/in/photostream/lightbox/

Let's look in the opposite direction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRqbXwmxE4I

At 1:55 the train leaves the existing satellite station and almost
immediately curves round to the left.

It's interesting that the straight stretch between the station and the
start of the curve looks shorter than between the end of the curve and the
portal, even though the portal is in line with the satellite.

Here's a better video, which shows broadly similar (~6 second at full
speed) straight sections either end of the curve.

One of the sources quoted by Wikipedia says the network is 3.2km long,
which if you measure from the depot to the headshunt beyond terminal B
matches exactly, if the apex of the curve is in the very middle of Apron
A (ie halfway between the passenger and freight terminals).

The train also takes exactly 20 seconds to get from the edge of the main
terminal building to the portal, a distance of 235m (thus 12m/sec -
which is 80% of the unit's 34mph top speed) and there simply isn't time
between the portal and the station to go anywhere near the freight
terminal and back.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 1 May 2018 11:36:12 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:07:47 on Tue,
1 May 2018, Theo remarked:
In uk.railway Recliner wrote:
Stansted is running at well below its runway capacity. If it ever grows to
need more passenger terminal capacity, it will simply need a new, fourth
satellite replacing the current cargo terminal, with a station on the
transit line running directly underneath. There's plenty of room to move
the cargo handling area to the west, or north of the runway.

There's a plan to build a new arrivals terminal, to the northeast of the
current terminal building:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-39507329

That will presumably mean some rejigging of pier walkways, or else another
stop on the transit (it's roughly where the depot is now).

The new terminal is alongside the tracks from the current terminal to
the depot. In practice they could keep the current arrivals station, and
filter people into the new terminal instead of the old. The full plans
are doubtless online, for anyone interested.

That seems to be what they are doing. Passengers appear to walk from the
existing terminal into the new arrivals terminal. It's UTT/16/3566/FUL at
http://publicaccess.uttlesford.gov.u...pe=Application
but links to the documents directly don't work. There is no new station
on the TTS.

In message , at 11:21:06 on
Wed, 2 May 2018, David Walters remarked:

There's a plan to build a new arrivals terminal, to the northeast of the
current terminal building:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-39507329

That will presumably mean some rejigging of pier walkways, or else another
stop on the transit (it's roughly where the depot is now).

The new terminal is alongside the tracks from the current terminal to
the depot. In practice they could keep the current arrivals station, and
filter people into the new terminal instead of the old. The full plans
are doubtless online, for anyone interested.

That seems to be what they are doing. Passengers appear to walk from the
existing terminal into the new arrivals terminal.

Thanks for finding that.

It's UTT/16/3566/FUL at
http://publicaccess.uttlesford.gov.u...pe=Application
but links to the documents directly don't work.

The infamous idox (a crap[tm] solution) temporary links.

There is no new station on the TTS.

Indeed, and of course no new shortcut walking route from the Ryanair
terminal.

"International flight passengers will arrive at the new building via
walkways or the transit train from the air-side satellite buildings at
the existing terminal's concourse level and walk through to the
immigration level in the new arrivals building. Passengers will then
drop down a level to baggage reclaim and to clear customs before
passing through the meeting area and out through the front of the
building."

And have a longer walk to the trains, no doubt.

For reference: "Grow rail mode share from 22% [in 2015] to 25% by the
end of 2019 and secure an enhanced timetable of services" - I wonder how
they propose to do that, given that with the introduction of a 1tph
additional service from the north, the single-alternate-working rail
tunnel is now at capacity.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 2 May 2018 11:14:55 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 21:49:16 on Tue, 1 May 2018, Recliner
remarked:
It was the underground route of the shuttle that surprised me: I
hadn't realised it went past and under the cargo terminal.

I'm becoming less and less convinced it does.

I'm going by this map, but I can't verify if the underground section is
accurate:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/41802404401/in/photostream/lightbox/

Let's look in the opposite direction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRqbXwmxE4I

At 1:55 the train leaves the existing satellite station and almost
immediately curves round to the left.

It's interesting that the straight stretch between the station and the
start of the curve looks shorter than between the end of the curve and the
portal, even though the portal is in line with the satellite.

Here's a better video, which shows broadly similar (~6 second at full
speed) straight sections either end of the curve.

One of the sources quoted by Wikipedia says the network is 3.2km long,
which if you measure from the depot to the headshunt beyond terminal B
matches exactly, if the apex of the curve is in the very middle of Apron
A (ie halfway between the passenger and freight terminals).

The train also takes exactly 20 seconds to get from the edge of the main
terminal building to the portal, a distance of 235m (thus 12m/sec -
which is 80% of the unit's 34mph top speed) and there simply isn't time
between the portal and the station to go anywhere near the freight
terminal and back.

Yes, thanks, it does look like the map I found places the 180 degree
curve too far to the west.

In message , at 11:14:55 on Wed, 2 May
2018, Roland Perry remarked:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 21:49:16 on Tue, 1 May 2018, Recliner
remarked:
It was the underground route of the shuttle that surprised me: I
hadn't realised it went past and under the cargo terminal.

I'm becoming less and less convinced it does.

I'm going by this map, but I can't verify if the underground section is
accurate:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...photostream/li


Let's look in the opposite direction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRqbXwmxE4I

At 1:55 the train leaves the existing satellite station and almost
immediately curves round to the left.

It's interesting that the straight stretch between the station and the
start of the curve looks shorter than between the end of the curve and the
portal, even though the portal is in line with the satellite.

Here's a better video, which shows broadly similar (~6 second at full
speed) straight sections either end of the curve.

And now, with the link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKn10Q_ZDFA

One of the sources quoted by Wikipedia says the network is 3.2km long,
which if you measure from the depot to the headshunt beyond terminal B
matches exactly, if the apex of the curve is in the very middle of
Apron A (ie halfway between the passenger and freight terminals).

The train also takes exactly 20 seconds to get from the edge of the
main terminal building to the portal, a distance of 235m (thus 12m/sec
- which is 80% of the unit's 34mph top speed) and there simply isn't
time between the portal and the station to go anywhere near the freight
terminal and back.

--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 02 May 2018 12:18:14 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 2 May 2018 11:14:55 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:
The train also takes exactly 20 seconds to get from the edge of the main
terminal building to the portal, a distance of 235m (thus 12m/sec -
which is 80% of the unit's 34mph top speed) and there simply isn't time
between the portal and the station to go anywhere near the freight
terminal and back.

Yes, thanks, it does look like the map I found places the 180 degree
curve too far to the west.

I can't see the point of the system when all the satellite terminals are
within walking distance of the main building. Why didn't they just
install some sky bridges and travellators?