In article HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win, SJCWHUK
writes
OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

Stockholm T-Bana is a modern systems that is not heavily used. The
stations are spacious, the platforms are straight. The stations are not
far below ground and usually a single lift connects the platform to the
surface.

What we are faced with is an old, crumbling, cramped system that has
been neglected for decades.
--
Andrew
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In article , Stephen Furley
writes

Gap fillers, like those at South Ferry on the New York subway? For those
that haven't seem them, these consist of an area of platform comprised of
many parallel steel bars, running back from the edge of the platform edge
for a metre or so, and wide enough to cover the width of the open doors when
the train stops. The bars are in two sets, alternate ones being fixed and
movable, when the train arrives the movable set moves forward to fill the
gap between the train and the platform edge. There are chains at the sides
of them at various hights, to prevent passengers falling off the side.
Probably be banned of safety grounds here. The bars might need to be at a
closer pitch than those in New York, to prevent a wheel from falling down
the gap between them when extended. The New York ones are about the size of
the cleats on the steps on the old 'wooden' escalators.

I've used the NYC subway and the 'gap fillers' aren't wheelchair
compatible.

They simply stop someone falling into a void - they do not provide a
smooth, slat bridge between the platform adn the carriage.
--
Andrew
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In message , M.Whitson
writes

Has proper consideration been given to what would happen in a "panic"
evacuation from below ground if wheelchairs were present? Perhaps someone
has looked at this and concluded that, despite the Act, it would be better
to delay the adaptation of LUL stations for wheelchairs.

Has anyone considered what would happen in a "panic" evacuation from
below ground if people who were drunk, blind, deaf, mentally unstable,
seriously overweight, elderly and infirm or otherwise incapacitated were
present?

I venture to suggest that the wheelchair-bound would be only one of a
wide range of members of the public with potentially extreme problems in
such difficulties.

--
Paul Terry

Steve wrote the following in:


Does anybody why wheelchair users are allowed to travel for free?

Actually, before you do, let me make one thing clear - I am all
for making travel in London more accessible for wheelchair-bound
and disabled people. I think we all agree on this point - why
should they be discriminated against?

But I have a problem with the fact that they are allowed to travel
free? Is this not rather discriminatory in itself?

The idea of a lot of accomodations for disabled people is that they put
the disabled person in question on a 'level playing field'. For example
a person who has difficulty writing by hand would be allowed to use a
computer to type in an exam. This is because it makes their ability to
write in the exam equal with that of a person who has no difficulty
writing by hand. For wheelchair users, getting around is an inherently
more expensive and difficult business requiring specialist equipment
like wheelchairs or, for example, adaptations to cars (although I don't
really know a great deal about the subject). By making travel on public
transport free that helps make them equal with people who do not have
to bear the extra costs associated with travel for wheelchair users.

--
message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law.
"Dust Hill guy likes the Gordon clock"

"You MUST NOT drive dangerously" - the Highway Code
There are 20,000,000 women wearing kinky boots.

"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
...
In article , Stephen Furley
I've used the NYC subway and the 'gap fillers' aren't wheelchair
compatible.

They simply stop someone falling into a void - they do not provide a
smooth, slat bridge between the platform adn the carriage.

This may be true of the existing ones, but I don't think it would be too
difficult to design ones which were usable by passengers in wheelchairs. On
systems such at the DLR and Croydon Tramlink the position of the vehicle
relative the the platform edge is controlled very closely, both horizontally
and vertically, and wheelchairs can easily get on and off.

If track and or platform hights on other systems were adjusted to elininate
the step, then a gap filler could reduce the gap which is inevitable at
curved platforms to one of a centimetre or two, which a wheelchair is
capable of crossing. With a bit of thought it would probably be possible to
design a gap filler that could tilt as it extended to form a ramp if the
platform was not quite level with the train floor.

Such a system may not be ideal, but I believe it could enable passengers in
wheelchairs to get on and off trains at somewhere like Bank Central line,
where it is difficult to see how it could be done otherwise, other than by
total reconstruction of the station, on a new site.

In article , Stephen
Furley writes


Hi Steve

This may be true of the existing ones, but I don't think it would be too
difficult to design ones which were usable by passengers in wheelchairs. On
systems such at the DLR and Croydon Tramlink the position of the vehicle
relative the the platform edge is controlled very closely, both horizontally
and vertically, and wheelchairs can easily get on and off.


I fail to see how a train can adjust its' position horizontally relative
to the platform edge. It's on rails. To do that you would need a very
clever bit of mechanics to do the movement, then go back to the standard
position before the train could move off. Far easier to do what has been
done on the JLE and get the platforms etc right first time. I don't
doubt that the technology is available - but would it work in reality.

If track and or platform hights on other systems were adjusted to elininate
the step, then a gap filler could reduce the gap which is inevitable at
curved platforms to one of a centimetre or two, which a wheelchair is
capable of crossing. With a bit of thought it would probably be possible to
design a gap filler that could tilt as it extended to form a ramp if the
platform was not quite level with the train floor.

Such a system may not be ideal, but I believe it could enable passengers in
wheelchairs to get on and off trains at somewhere like Bank Central line,
where it is difficult to see how it could be done otherwise, other than by
total reconstruction of the station, on a new site.

I agree with what you are saying but it would mean clever engineering
and the train stopping in exactly the right place every time for the gap
fillers to work properly.

Far easier to get it right at the design stage rather than retro fit.
Unfortunately for LU, that's 100 years late......
--
Andrew
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communication can not be guaranteed.
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"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
...
In article , Stephen
Far easier to do what has been
done on the JLE and get the platforms etc right first time.

That was what I meant, that track can be positioned accurately relative to
the platform edge, and prevented from moving. Given a straight platform
this can bring the vehicle entrance very close to the platform edge, and a
wheelchair can easily board. At existing stations which have tightly curved
platforms it is not possible to avoid a gap which is too wide for a
wheelchair to cross, but if the track is accurately positioned, so that the
width of the gap is known, and constant, then I think that a device working
on a similar principle to the New York gap filler could be designed to allow
a wheelchair to board, and at a cost which would be affordable, which total
reconstruction of the station, and the approach tracks leading to it, to
eliminate the curved platforms would not be. If it is not possible to
arrange for the vehicle floor to be exactly level with the platform surface
then, as long as the difference is fairly small, known, and constant, then I
think that a tilting gap filler could be designed, which would form a ramp
as it extended.

In an ideal world we would have anunderground system where all platforms
were suitable for wheelchair access to trains, but in reality, the cost of
the reconstruction which would be needed at some stations would be so high
that it could never happen. In some circumstances this may be an affordable
alternative.

In article , Stephen
Furley writes

In an ideal world we would have anunderground system where all platforms
were suitable for wheelchair access to trains, but in reality, the cost of
the reconstruction which would be needed at some stations would be so high
that it could never happen. In some circumstances this may be an affordable
alternative.

I agree with that.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm

London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled
people if it does not improve access for them by October.
By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access
to transport will come into force.

Currently only one in seven stations are step-free, which allows entry for
wheelchair users.

[snip]

And at quite what height should the platforms be at Ealing Common and
Rayner's Lane to Uxbridge to be step free?

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:55:40 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

In message , M.Whitson
writes

Has proper consideration been given to what would happen in a "panic"
evacuation from below ground if wheelchairs were present? Perhaps someone
has looked at this and concluded that, despite the Act, it would be better
to delay the adaptation of LUL stations for wheelchairs.

Has anyone considered what would happen in a "panic" evacuation from
below ground if people who were drunk, blind, deaf, mentally unstable,
seriously overweight, elderly and infirm or otherwise incapacitated were
present?

I venture to suggest that the wheelchair-bound would be only one of a
wide range of members of the public with potentially extreme problems in
such difficulties.

Don't think that speculation is needed here, sadly there are facts to
base planning/understanding on - viz KX

Keith J Chesworth
www.unseenlondon.co.uk
www.blackpooltram.co.uk
www.happysnapper.com
www.boilerbill.com - main site
www.amerseyferry.co.uk