"Robin May" wrote in message
.4...

Indeed. I think the idea that access to central London is a line's most
important feature is extremely flawed. A large number of journeys
currently involve central London not because the person wants to go
there but because they have to in order to get from one outer London
area to another.
snip
This brings me to another point, which is that a line doesn't have to
go to central London for it to be useful to people wanting to get
there. People can use an orbital line to get from their local station
to an interchange with a line going into central London, for example
Highbury and Islington on the NLL or Canada Water on the ELL.

I think that the Brighton-Watford service demonstrates both your points
admirably. With Earl's Court and Olympia as major destinations, people can
now go there direct, without having to change onto the District line at
Victoria, by leaving at West Brompton or KO.

Conversely, for anyone wishing to go to Knightsbridge, Sloane Square, etc.
the almost cross-platform change at West Brompton is much easier than a
half-mile trek at Victoria to the District Line.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Jonn Elledge" wrote in message
...

Plus those in great swathes of East London get direct
access to the west End for the first time.

The cross-platform interchange at Stratford means that they pretty much
have
this already.


Well, yes, but it gets very cold up there in winter.

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Aidan Stanger) wrote:

Travelators probably do cost more than escalators, but they still exist
elsewhere on the Tube system, and they have the advantage of being
wheelchair accessible.

"They"? How many are there beyond the two at Bank (W&C)?


There's one at Waterloo.

"Robin May" wrote on Saturday, April 17, 2004 3:42 PM:

Buses are one way of making an orbital journey at the moment but they
aren't really very good for the longish journeys that would be made
easily possible by an orbital rail link. An example of that sort of
thing, the North London line, seems fairly heavily used with the trains
often being uncomfortably packed at busy times. I know I go on about
this all the time, but I think it would be even more heavily used if a
more frequent and reliable service was provided and the stations were
done up a bit.

Yeah, you're right there. Whenever I've been on the NLL it's been pretty
full and I've had a long-ish wait before the train comes.

IIRC they say the big problems with increasing frequency on the NLL are that
single track stretch at the eastern end, and the shared working with the
District Line at the western end. Perhaps the extra trains could just run
from South Acton Willesden Jn. and terminate at Custom House, avoiding the
two trouble spots. (Maybe an extension of the Clapham to Willesden
shuttle?) Run these new services in addition to the existing services from
Richmond to North Woolwich, and they'd be a simple way of increasing the
frequency without spending a fortune remodelling the track, signalling, etc.

"Solar Pennguin" wrote in
message ...

IIRC they say the big problems with increasing frequency
on the NLL are that single track stretch at the eastern end,
and the shared working with the District Line at the western end.

The single track section is not a problem because whenever they want to run
more than 3tph on the bulk of the line, they just turn half the trains at
Stratford.

As for Gunnersbury, since Rayners Lane handles 12 tph Piccadilly and 6tph
Met in the peak, I don't see why Gunnersbury-Richmond couldn't handle a
trebling of NLL peak frequency.

The main bottleneck is generally alleged to be freight paths between just
west of Stratford and Camden Road (and to a lesser extent as far as South
Acton).

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 at 02:29:00, Colin Rosenstiel
wrote:

In article ,
(Aidan Stanger) wrote:

Travelators probably do cost more than escalators, but they still exist
elsewhere on the Tube system, and they have the advantage of being
wheelchair accessible.

"They"? How many are there beyond the two at Bank (W&C)?

There are two at Waterloo, and, of course, the ones at Heathrow Central.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 at 12:43:28, Colin McKenzie
wrote:

Actually, a considerable amount of central London tube congestion - and
much suburban road congestion - is caused by the fact that the quickest
public transport route for many suburb to suburb journeys is via the
centre. This includes suburbs essentially on the same side of London -
e.g. Greenford to Richmond.

Orbital routes are still generally cheaper to build than ones across
central London, making them one of the more cost-effective ways of
relieving zone 1 tube congestion.

Yes, it occurs to me that when/if the ELL extension opens, I won't have
to go through Central London to get to work from skating! But I won't
hold my breath.....

But I'm in favour of Crossrail, if it is built as a metro service.

Me too.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 at 14:42:34, Robin May
wrote:

An example of that sort of
thing, the North London line, seems fairly heavily used with the trains
often being uncomfortably packed at busy times. I know I go on about
this all the time, but I think it would be even more heavily used if a
more frequent and reliable service was provided and the stations were
done up a bit.

And if it were better-publicised. My Canadian colleague had no idea of
its existence, and was solemnly travelling from Islington to Canning
Town via Central London until I realised that it was the North London
Lines that went to Canning Town (which I hadn't known until I looked,
out of curiosity, at what lines did go there), and told her it would be
quicker for her. Which it is! I just wish the South London Line (which
I use) would be extended beyond London Bridge/Victoria.....
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

In article ,
(Annabel Smyth) wrote:

"They"? How many are there beyond the two at Bank (W&C)?

There are two at Waterloo, and, of course, the ones at Heathrow
Central.

Are the Heathrow travelators in the tube station? I know there are lots in
the airport.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Are the Heathrow travelators in the tube station? I know there are lots in
the airport.

IIRC, they're in the stretches leading right up to the tube station.

Niklas
--
"My first time renting a car in the UK, I was a little surprised at how long it
took to get up to 100 on the motorway and was thinking disparaging remarks about
this ****box Escort. And then I realized that in the UK they still use miles."
-- Paul Tomblin