In article ,
(Clive) wrote:

Not really, the main reason is that when taking these pictures, people
usually point at the front of a train when it is entering the
platform.
Trust me, it's not very nice coming out of a dark tunnel to have a
bright flash in your face just as you're trying to berth the train in
the platform, apart from the obvious safety implications.
Tell me, on the Northern Line, are the trains still over length for the
stations so that the driver has to position his cab over the stopping
diamond in the far tunnel.
--
Clive

Sorry for the late comment, I missed this post.

No, the 95stock stopping marks are all positioned so that the driver can
stop with his cab door in the platform, albeit it is a bit tight on the SB
island platforms at Clapham. Although diamond marks are still there, they
are redundant, as are the coasting boards. All the stopping marks at the
stations are now the white and green boards.

Roger

In message ,
writes
Although diamond marks are still there, they are redundant, as are the
coasting boards
How do you know when to shut off and coast?
--
Clive

In message , Clive
writes

Although diamond marks are still there, they are redundant, as are
the coasting boards
How do you know when to shut off and coast?

In my case (on the Picc.) my line knowledge is such that I know where to
shut off and coast and start braking. Just comes with time.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In message , Steve Fitzgerald
] writes

In my case (on the Picc.) my line knowledge is such that I know where
to shut off and coast and start braking. Just comes with time.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)
I am a former Northern Line and Central line driver, and whilst I knew
where to shut off to coast, the diamonds were for economy. Have these
now gone?
--
Clive

In message , Clive
writes

In my case (on the Picc.) my line knowledge is such that I know where
to shut off and coast and start braking. Just comes with time.

I am a former Northern Line and Central line driver, and whilst I knew
where to shut off to coast, the diamonds were for economy. Have these
now gone?

Some of them are still there but are difficult to spot in the dirt and
dust generally, they don't seem to get cleaned.

There are also instances where signalling has been changed and the
diamonds have been left there. The approach to Cockfosters comes to
mind - after the Moorgate disaster there was a lot of protection put in
place so that you now have to approach the inner home at just under
18mph for it to drop. If you were to motor up to the diamond there, you
would have no chance!
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In article ,
(Clive) wrote:

In message ,
writes
Although diamond marks are still there, they are redundant, as are
the coasting boards
How do you know when to shut off and coast?
--
Clive

As Steve says it's down to line knowledge. Drivers have generally had
their own favourite spots for shutting off. In the open section it was
easy because of the scenery, but in the tunnel it was usually a certain
signal, a beer bottle on the cable run (no longer there!), perhaps a
blockjoint, equipment on the tunnel wall, coasting board, reaching a
certain point in the track, etc. It was something that was done without
thinking. A similar thing applies when slowing down in advance for speed
restrictions, even though the restriction sign may not be visible at that
point.

Well, strictly speaking, it WAS! The line Driving Techniques effectively
do away with the old line knowledge as they state the exact point where
drivers should shut off under normal circumstances (i.e. line clear
ahead)- the basis of the techniques being that the driver reaches line
speed as quick as possible, remains at line speed by coasting / braking /
motoring as necessary, then brakes fairly heavy when coming into the
platform - a bit like the principle of auto working.

Because of this, the coasting boards become redundant because a train will
never be coasting, unless doing so to maintain line speed. On the Northern
Line, the coasting boards were out of position for the 95 stock anyway.

Coasting boards are not mentioned any where in the NL driving techniques
and mention of them has now been omitted from the Northern Line
Supplement. One of the problems, on the Northern Line anyway, was that
trainees were still being taught by many I/Ops that they should shut off
at the coasting boards. This was chased up and, it took nearly a year, but
on the Northern Line at least, I now have confirmation that coasting
boards are officially no more! However, like many of the various signs,
the 7 car stopping marks etc., they are still in position although
redundant.

Roger

In article , ] (Steve
Fitzgerald) wrote:

In message , Clive
writes

In my case (on the Picc.) my line knowledge is such that I know where
to shut off and coast and start braking. Just comes with time.

I am a former Northern Line and Central line driver, and whilst I knew
where to shut off to coast, the diamonds were for economy. Have
these now gone?

Some of them are still there but are difficult to spot in the dirt and
dust generally, they don't seem to get cleaned.

There are also instances where signalling has been changed and the
diamonds have been left there. The approach to Cockfosters comes to
mind - after the Moorgate disaster there was a lot of protection put in
place so that you now have to approach the inner home at just under
18mph for it to drop. If you were to motor up to the diamond there,
you would have no chance!
--

This is the same with Y2, approaching Morden. Possibly a throw back to
when coupling / uncoupling was withdrawn and the calling-on/warning
signal was removed and Y2 moved further back. Nobody in their right mind
would wait until they reached it before shutting off, especially with some
of the braking on the older stock, but it would have been interesting to
have had a try!.

The actual driving techniques for this approach state:
"3. About 2 train lengths before signal Y2 select Off & Release and coast
4. About 1½ train lengths before signal Y2 (position of the old coasting
board) apply the appropriate ‘Professional Driving’ techniques for it’s
approach."

Although only shutting off ½ car length earlier, that ½ car would make a
big difference.

In reality, people have always shut off at a point where the cables dip in
the tunnel - which is about the designated shut off point anyway.

Roger