On 18/01/2019 16:21, Optimist wrote:
On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 12:22:33 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 12:06:37 -0000
"tim..." wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
If I had an urgent appointment in Central London, I'd either use public
transport or a pushbike, as they are the fastest ways to get round the
City. By about 2030, all buses will be electric, as will most cabs.

the problem is that this, and similar bans in other cities, aren't being
proposed for 2030

they are being proposed for 2020

I'd love to see an electric bus that can make it up highgate or hampstead or
muswell hill more than 2 or 3 times before requiring a recharge being
available by 2020. Its one thing running electric buses in nice flat areas
such as southwark as is currently done, its quite another running them up
1:10 hills.

As a kid I used the 654 trolley bus route which ran between Croydon and Crystal Palace. They
handled the climb up Anerley Hill with ease. Then they were replaced by motor buses, which on the
first day could not get up the hill.

Yes but trolley buses needed overhead wires. I remember the excitement
in my schoolboy days when the bus came off the wires. I think it could
move on its battery - about 10 yards on the flat.

On 19/01/2019 08:57, MikeS wrote:
On 18/01/2019 16:21, Optimist wrote:
On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 12:22:33 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 12:06:37 -0000
"tim..." wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
If I had an urgent appointment in Central London, I'd either use
public
transport or a pushbike, as they are the fastest ways to get round the
City. By about 2030, all buses will be electric, as will most cabs.

the problem is that this, and similar bans in other cities, aren't
being
proposed for 2030

they are being proposed for 2020

I'd love to see an electric bus that can make it up highgate or
hampstead or
muswell hill more than 2 or 3 times before requiring a recharge being
available by 2020. Its one thing running electric buses in nice flat
areas
such as southwark as is currently done, its quite another running
them up
1:10 hills.

As a kid I used the 654 trolley bus route which ran between Croydon
and Crystal Palace.Â* They
handled the climb up Anerley Hill with ease.Â* Then they were replaced
by motor buses, which on the
first day could not get up the hill.

Yes but trolley buses needed overhead wires. I remember the excitement
in my schoolboy days when the bus came off the wires. I think it could
move on its battery - about 10 yards on the flat.



Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

Theo

Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

Yes, good idea.

On 19/01/2019 22:17, Recliner wrote:
Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

Yes, good idea.




Though you then have the weight and cost of the on-board electrical
euipment to convert the trolley voltage to whatever the batteries supply.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/01/2019 22:17, Recliner wrote:
Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

Yes, good idea.




Though you then have the weight and cost of the on-board electrical
euipment to convert the trolley voltage to whatever the batteries supply.


Presumably it would simply act as a battery charger, using the same voltage
as the depot charger?

Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/01/2019 22:17, Recliner wrote:
Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

Yes, good idea.

Though you then have the weight and cost of the on-board electrical
euipment to convert the trolley voltage to whatever the batteries supply.


Presumably it would simply act as a battery charger, using the same voltage
as the depot charger?

For electric cars, the “fast charger� supplies DC at about 500 V. For a
larger bus sized battery an increase to perhaps 650 V might be sensible.
Guess what trolley buses run on?

Robin

On 19/01/2019 21:24, Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

That would make the tourist areas look like crap. It's better and
cheaper to have charging pads in the road at termini and other lengthy
stops. This was, and presumably still is, used on bus route 69 with
charging pads at Canning Town and Walthamstow.

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/3271

--
Basil Jet - Current favourite song...
What by Bruce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtJEAud9vao

Basil Jet wrote:
That would make the tourist areas look like crap. It's better and
cheaper to have charging pads in the road at termini and other lengthy
stops. This was, and presumably still is, used on bus route 69 with
charging pads at Canning Town and Walthamstow.

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/3271

They seem to manage tram wires in Princes Street. And indeed in many
Continental historic centres. You could of course wire less touristy parts
- most cities have main thoroughfares where buses are concentrated.

The trouble with inductive charging is you can get much less power transfer
than a wired connection, and it's less efficient.

I wonder how much the no. 69 runs on electric, and how much it's a pure
diesel bus?
goes digging
57% in EV mode - not bad:
https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/pre...ald,%20TfL.pdf
Although 16kW isn't that great for charge power.

Theo

On 20/01/2019 12:44, Theo wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
That would make the tourist areas look like crap. It's better and
cheaper to have charging pads in the road at termini and other lengthy
stops. This was, and presumably still is, used on bus route 69 with
charging pads at Canning Town and Walthamstow.

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/3271

They seem to manage tram wires in Princes Street. And indeed in many
Continental historic centres. You could of course wire less touristy parts
- most cities have main thoroughfares where buses are concentrated.

The trouble with inductive charging is you can get much less power transfer
than a wired connection, and it's less efficient.

I wonder how much the no. 69 runs on electric, and how much it's a pure
diesel bus?
goes digging
57% in EV mode - not bad:
https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/pre...ald,%20TfL.pdf
Although 16kW isn't that great for charge power.

Okay, well put overhead on the bus terminus then, and make it overhead
rails so it can't get blown down. Pretty much anything is better than
electric wires down every main road in the city.

--
Basil Jet - Current favourite song...
What by Bruce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtJEAud9vao