https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?


Buses and taxis, yes — all new London taxis are PHEVs, with quite a decent
zero emissions range. Some delivery vehicles are now electric (and I'm not
talking about milk floats), and presumably more will be by the time this
starts.

Presumably emergency vehicles will be exempted.

In message , at 09:54:43 on Thu, 1 Nov 2018,
Graeme Wall remarked:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ing-ban-in-cit
y-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?

That was my first thought (and similar to earlier discussions about
similar zones in Central Oxford).

We have to assume that public sector vehicles (not just emergency ones,
but waste/litter collection, fixing streetlights, etc) will be exempt?

That just leaves similar vehicles operating in the private sector.
Hybrid Openreach and builders' vans, anyone?

[To be fair, BT claim to have been testing some low emissions vans for a
year now, but they would say that, wouldn't they]
--
Roland Perry

On 01/11/2018 10:14, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:54:43 on Thu, 1 Nov 2018,
Graeme Wall remarked:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ing-ban-in-cit
y-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

Good luck with that one.Â* Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?

That was my first thought (and similar to earlier discussions about
similar zones in Central Oxford).

We have to assume that public sector vehicles (not just emergency ones,
but waste/litter collection, fixing streetlights, etc) will be exempt?

That just leaves similar vehicles operating in the private sector.
Hybrid Openreach and builders' vans, anyone?

[To be fair, BT claim to have been testing some low emissions vans for a
Â*year now, but they would say that, wouldn't they]

The problem is for those of us who live just outside (in my case East)
of the City and have to transit it as part of the beginning of a longer
journey (which is not reasonably possible to complete on public
transport - for example I have family in rural areas on the
England/Wales borders).

Yes, the inner ringroad can be followed, but given the woeful state of
traffic in London, any further limitations of options could cause utter
chaos in the case of a single breakdown or accident.

What we need to prevent is regular journeys, not all journeys - that
would also cover emergency vehicles, people having to fix things and so
on, but not daily deliveries or commuting to work.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?


Given enough notice those things can mainly be coped with, Taxis and Buses
are already well on the way.
To be honest the article isn’t that clear if it is just cars or vehicles.
Cars would imply private ones and presumably ones operated by the emergency
services would be allowed.
That still leaves a lot of service provision on the edge though, while it
is not an emergency in the 999 sense
someone who urgently needs a plumber because their leak is potentially
causing thousands of pounds of damage to their flat and others below may
not be that happy to be told “sorry most of our vehicles are not allowed
where you live,the one that is won’t be free for hours�, and that scenario
will apply to a multitude of items from photocopiers to freezers in shops
and restaurants at least for a while till vehicle development catches up
with the market.

GH

In message , at 11:42:01 on Thu, 1 Nov
2018, Someone Somewhere remarked:
On 01/11/2018 10:14, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:54:43 on Thu, 1 Nov
2018, Graeme Wall remarked:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ing-ban-in-cit
y-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

Good luck with that one.* Are there enough low emission buses,
taxis, delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?
That was my first thought (and similar to earlier discussions about
similar zones in Central Oxford).
We have to assume that public sector vehicles (not just emergency
ones, but waste/litter collection, fixing streetlights, etc) will be
exempt?
That just leaves similar vehicles operating in the private sector.
Hybrid Openreach and builders' vans, anyone?
[To be fair, BT claim to have been testing some low emissions vans
for a
*year now, but they would say that, wouldn't they]

The problem is for those of us who live just outside (in my case East)
of the City and have to transit it as part of the beginning of a longer
journey (which is not reasonably possible to complete on public
transport - for example I have family in rural areas on the
England/Wales borders).

Yes, the inner ringroad can be followed, but given the woeful state of
traffic in London, any further limitations of options could cause utter
chaos in the case of a single breakdown or accident.

What we need to prevent is regular journeys, not all journeys - that
would also cover emergency vehicles, people having to fix things and so
on, but not daily deliveries or commuting to work.

I can definitely relate to this "occasional use" exemption. There are
many driving restrictions in place which are primarily aimed at regular
drivers. If I was to venture inside the N/S circulars in my diesel car,
or use the Dartford Crossing, one or twice a year, would it really break
the bank to waive the fee?
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 15:08:19 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:42:01 on Thu, 1 Nov
2018, Someone Somewhere remarked:
On 01/11/2018 10:14, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:54:43 on Thu, 1 Nov
2018, Graeme Wall remarked:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ing-ban-in-cit
y-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

Good luck with that one.* Are there enough low emission buses,
taxis, delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?
That was my first thought (and similar to earlier discussions about
similar zones in Central Oxford).
We have to assume that public sector vehicles (not just emergency
ones, but waste/litter collection, fixing streetlights, etc) will be
exempt?
That just leaves similar vehicles operating in the private sector.
Hybrid Openreach and builders' vans, anyone?
[To be fair, BT claim to have been testing some low emissions vans
for a
*year now, but they would say that, wouldn't they]

The problem is for those of us who live just outside (in my case East)
of the City and have to transit it as part of the beginning of a longer
journey (which is not reasonably possible to complete on public
transport - for example I have family in rural areas on the
England/Wales borders).

Yes, the inner ringroad can be followed, but given the woeful state of
traffic in London, any further limitations of options could cause utter
chaos in the case of a single breakdown or accident.

What we need to prevent is regular journeys, not all journeys - that
would also cover emergency vehicles, people having to fix things and so
on, but not daily deliveries or commuting to work.

I can definitely relate to this "occasional use" exemption. There are
many driving restrictions in place which are primarily aimed at regular
drivers. If I was to venture inside the N/S circulars in my diesel car,
or use the Dartford Crossing, one or twice a year, would it really break
the bank to waive the fee?

Probably not BUT where do you set the limit? In any case, this is
not about raking in money (even though it might do so). It's about
air quality and therefore keeping as many "polluting vehicles" out
is/should be the aim.

In message , at 17:46:47 on
Thu, 1 Nov 2018, Graham Harrison
remarked:
What we need to prevent is regular journeys, not all journeys - that
would also cover emergency vehicles, people having to fix things and so
on, but not daily deliveries or commuting to work.

I can definitely relate to this "occasional use" exemption. There are
many driving restrictions in place which are primarily aimed at regular
drivers. If I was to venture inside the N/S circulars in my diesel car,
or use the Dartford Crossing, one or twice a year, would it really break
the bank to waive the fee?

Probably not BUT where do you set the limit?

Somewhere between five and ten per scheme per annum.

In any case, this is not about raking in money (even though it might do
so). It's about air quality and therefore keeping as many "polluting
vehicles" out is/should be the aim.

While I agree that regular vehicles like commuters' cars, and ultra-
regular users like taxis, buses and many delivery vans, should be
cleaned up, the hoops someone who drives a few miles in such an area
five times a year is expected to jump through (such as buying a new car
for those rare Central London trips, or driving the other way round the
M25 to avoid Dartford) is totally disproportionate.

--
Roland Perry

On 01/11/2018 10:05, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?


Buses and taxis, yes — all new London taxis are PHEVs, with quite a decent
zero emissions range.

So what happens when you walk up to an enclosed rank, such as
Paddington, wanting to go to the City and the first electric vehicle is
the fifth one in the rank?

I strongly suspect all taxis would be exempt.

--
Basil Jet - listening... Soft Cell. Soft Machine. Solomon Grey. Sonic
Youth. Sonique. Sonny Rollins. Sophie Ellis Bextor. Soul-Junk. Space.
Space (French). Spacehog. Spacemen 3. Spear Of Destiny. Spectres (UK).
Spiller feat Sophie Ellis Bextor. Spiritual Vibes. Spiritualized.
Splat!. Split Enz. Spoon. Spring King. Squeeze. Sroeng Santi.