"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun 2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

tim

tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun 2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights. No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

On 30/06/2019 17:02, tim... wrote:

So just because of one idiot, we all have to dawdle down the road
waiting behind the bus at every stop, just because you don't want us to
overtake?

I don't mind people overtaking, as long as they don't execute dangerous
manoevres as they're doing so. I prefer not to have passengers injured
on my bus (or rather I did, I'm now retired so have oodles of time to
spend on Usenet..!)


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

In message , at 19:29:18 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019, tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

Just like every other traffic accident. But that's still a few thousand
people a year needlessly put into danger (out of 500+ billion road/km a
year in the UK).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 19:00:48 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019, D A Stocks remarked:
Most modern cars will shut off the engine if sitting at lights, etc.
Although this does rely on the driver selecting neutral and putting
the handbrake on, and how many people do that..? No, they just sit
there in front of you with their foot on the brake giving you full
brake light intensity, lovely at night, I don't think grrrr...

Strangely, with the only start-stop implementation I've driven (Alfa
Romeo) the engine cut when the car was stopped with the footbrake. If
you then selected neutral and applied the handbrake the engine
restarted when you took your foot off the footbrake.

I decided to bypass start-stop altogether on my latest car by buying a
full hybrid, where the engine has stopped long before the car comes to
a rest, and the car can be moved for short distances in heavy traffic
without starting the engine at all. However, the parking brake on this
car is electric and is quite hard to apply manually - it is applied
automatically when you shift the transmission to Park. The car has a
brake hold feature which leaves the footbrake applied after coming to a
stop. The brake releases when you press the accelerator to move off.
This works fairly well, but it doeas keep the brake lights on while
you're stopped.

I find all this gadgetry is fine on a reasonably level road. But trying
to do a hill-start in heavy traffic in an unfamiliar car with quite so
many individual quirks is a nightmare.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:00:48 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019, D A Stocks remarked:
Most modern cars will shut off the engine if sitting at lights, etc.
Although this does rely on the driver selecting neutral and putting
the handbrake on, and how many people do that..? No, they just sit
there in front of you with their foot on the brake giving you full
brake light intensity, lovely at night, I don't think grrrr...

Strangely, with the only start-stop implementation I've driven (Alfa
Romeo) the engine cut when the car was stopped with the footbrake. If
you then selected neutral and applied the handbrake the engine
restarted when you took your foot off the footbrake.

I decided to bypass start-stop altogether on my latest car by buying a
full hybrid, where the engine has stopped long before the car comes to
a rest, and the car can be moved for short distances in heavy traffic
without starting the engine at all. However, the parking brake on this
car is electric and is quite hard to apply manually - it is applied
automatically when you shift the transmission to Park. The car has a
brake hold feature which leaves the footbrake applied after coming to a
stop. The brake releases when you press the accelerator to move off.
This works fairly well, but it doeas keep the brake lights on while
you're stopped.

I find all this gadgetry is fine on a reasonably level road. But trying
to do a hill-start in heavy traffic in an unfamiliar car with quite so
many individual quirks is a nightmare.

As with any automatic, hill starts should surely be easy?

In my car, the parking brake is also automatic. It's applied whenever you
stop, and released automatically when you're out of P mode. The doors lock
as soon as you start moving.

In message , at 07:40:46 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

I decided to bypass start-stop altogether on my latest car by buying a
full hybrid, where the engine has stopped long before the car comes to
a rest, and the car can be moved for short distances in heavy traffic
without starting the engine at all. However, the parking brake on this
car is electric and is quite hard to apply manually - it is applied
automatically when you shift the transmission to Park. The car has a
brake hold feature which leaves the footbrake applied after coming to a
stop. The brake releases when you press the accelerator to move off.
This works fairly well, but it doeas keep the brake lights on while
you're stopped.

I find all this gadgetry is fine on a reasonably level road. But trying
to do a hill-start in heavy traffic in an unfamiliar car with quite so
many individual quirks is a nightmare.

As with any automatic, hill starts should surely be easy?

I had an Audi inflicted on me as a hire car (I had ordered a Passat),
and over the week I had it couldn't work out how to do a hill start
using the gadgetry rather than the old-fashioned way. Part of the
problem being that nevertheless it would keep stalling [more than half
the time] as soon as it got under way (irrespective of the amount of
throttle).

Reported this as a fault to the hire car people, but they said in effect
"it's supposed to work like that". But they could have been just
covering up.

One of the reasons I bought a rather more simple-minded vehicle
recently, which works fine.
--
Roland Perry

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights.

An automatic?

Aren't there different considerations there?

No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights.

An automatic?

Aren't there different considerations there?

Why? It effectively puts the car in neutral and applies the brake, just
what I want.


No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe. You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone
rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights.

An automatic?

Aren't there different considerations there?

Why? It effectively puts the car in neutral and applies the brake, just
what I want.

there you go then

it applies the brake

the same thing doesn't happen in a manual, so any discussions about whether
it is actually *necessary* to apply the brake with a manual can't be
compared with what an auto does

No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe.

for a tiny possibility

You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

so you say

tim