On 10/09/2019 19:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:12:04 on Tue,
10 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
Does that include the wiring from the distribution box to the garage?

https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

‘StandardÂ* Installation’ means an installation that can be carried out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but
not be
limited, to the following:
a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing of electrical connections and protections
required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;

(that particular instance is GBP299, only selected because it came up
recently on another newsgroup.Â* Others are cheaper)

No good for about half the houses-with-garages I've owned over the
years, then. Only works for an integral garage, not most detached ones.
Not that I've ever used an integral garage to store a car in (rather
than using it as a lockup).

The last house I lived in had a garage that was too small to hold
anything bigger than an original-style Mini. I certainly had no chance
of getting the Volvo 440 I had at the time in it..!

--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Roland Perry wrote:
No good for about half the houses-with-garages I've owned over the
years, then. Only works for an integral garage, not most detached ones.
Not that I've ever used an integral garage to store a car in (rather
than using it as a lockup).

In that case, mount the charger box on the house near where you'd park the
car. If you're not storing the car in or near the garage, there's no
dependency on supplying power to the garage. The charger is waterproof and
it's intended to go outside.

Theo

In message , at 19:16:21 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, Recliner remarked:
Does that include the wiring from the distribution box to the garage?

https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

‘Standard Installation’ means an installation that can be carried out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but not be
limited, to the following:
a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;

(that particular instance is GBP299, only selected because it came up
recently on another newsgroup. Others are cheaper)

No good for about half the houses-with-garages I've owned over the
years, then. Only works for an integral garage, not most detached ones.
Not that I've ever used an integral garage to store a car in (rather
than using it as a lockup).

And I think you're typical of most garage owners. In any case, many modern
cars are simply too wide to fit comfortably in a traditional British
garage.

But, of course, if you have an integral garage, you probably have space to
park a BEV and somewhere to mount a charger box.

Not in many modern developments such as this one typical of the newer
housing being built in and around Cambridge:

https://goo.gl/maps/ZVkwF8yevgVPVWwx5

And around the corner, four garages with zero adjacent on-street parking

https://goo.gl/maps/GTQN3rtoMqsgvniv6
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 00:06:56 on Wed,
11 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
No good for about half the houses-with-garages I've owned over the
years, then. Only works for an integral garage, not most detached ones.
Not that I've ever used an integral garage to store a car in (rather
than using it as a lockup).

In that case, mount the charger box on the house near where you'd park the
car. If you're not storing the car in or near the garage, there's no
dependency on supplying power to the garage. The charger is waterproof and
it's intended to go outside.

That assumes the available parking is adjacent to one's own home, rather
than someone else's.

The parking here https://goo.gl/maps/hnfKpHB6kdKyLPpy6 for example is
one garage/drive for the adjacent two-storey house, and another for its
terraced 3-storey neighbour.
--
Roland Perry

On 11/09/2019 00:06, Theo wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
No good for about half the houses-with-garages I've owned over the
years, then. Only works for an integral garage, not most detached ones.
Not that I've ever used an integral garage to store a car in (rather
than using it as a lockup).

In that case, mount the charger box on the house near where you'd park the
car. If you're not storing the car in or near the garage, there's no
dependency on supplying power to the garage. The charger is waterproof and
it's intended to go outside.


The people I bought my current house form had a Leaf. The garage is
separate from the house so they had the charger mounted on the wall of
the house, right next to the meter cupboard, so minimal extra cabling
needed. I don't think the Leaf would have got through the garage door
anyway!


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:16:21 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, Recliner remarked:
And I think you're typical of most garage owners. In any case, many modern
cars are simply too wide to fit comfortably in a traditional British
garage.

But, of course, if you have an integral garage, you probably have space to
park a BEV and somewhere to mount a charger box.

Not in many modern developments such as this one typical of the newer
housing being built in and around Cambridge:

https://goo.gl/maps/ZVkwF8yevgVPVWwx5

Those garages aren't fit for purpose, because you couldn't fit a modern car
in them, and presumably the owners don't get anywhere else to put one.
They're essentially covered bike-and-junk shelters.

Other developments at least admit that cars are parked outside these days:
https://goo.gl/maps/bpbaVTgDTCAJKpNA6
and charging here would be fine.
(although I don't know if there's a covenant about putting extra stuff on
the front of your house)

Theo

In message , at 10:38:07 on Wed,
11 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:16:21 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, Recliner remarked:
And I think you're typical of most garage owners. In any case, many modern
cars are simply too wide to fit comfortably in a traditional British
garage.

But, of course, if you have an integral garage, you probably have space to
park a BEV and somewhere to mount a charger box.

Not in many modern developments such as this one typical of the newer
housing being built in and around Cambridge:

https://goo.gl/maps/ZVkwF8yevgVPVWwx5

Those garages aren't fit for purpose, because you couldn't fit a modern car
in them, and presumably the owners don't get anywhere else to put one.
They're essentially covered bike-and-junk shelters.

But we are where we are. And while those garages will be counted in the
stats being bandied about "40% have garages", I tend to agree they don't
in practice facilitate the charging of electric vehicles at all.

I remember going to view a 1930's house a few years ago and the estate
agent was driving an Audi TT, which he had parked on the drive outside
the garage. It was obvious at a glance that the car was wider than the
garage doors, let alone had it just fitted there being any prospect of
opening the car door.

Other developments at least admit that cars are parked outside these days:
https://goo.gl/maps/bpbaVTgDTCAJKpNA6
and charging here would be fine.

You wouldn't get much more than a Smart Car there, without obstructing
the pavement.

(although I don't know if there's a covenant about putting extra stuff on
the front of your house)

I've only seen covenants about satellite dishes, but if people invent
suitably ugly charging points, developers might catch on and start
banning them too.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:26:48 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 11:16:41 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town
of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.


That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front
gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats? That's not typical of the urban areas
for
which BEVs are best suited.

In England in 2010 40% of dwellings had use of a garage and 26% had
other off street parking[1]. I am assuming that those with garages have
a car sized bit of drive in front on which they can park their car even
if they don't put it in the car. I'm sure there are exceptions but we
can loose a lot before we drop 16%.

As a habitual flat dweller (12% of the housing stock), I can tell you that
every time I have had a flat with a garage (which I confess is a bit short
of 50%) It has always been of the "block round the back" type with no
alternative off street parking

Examples of towns with a population of 40,000, as cited by David Cantrell,
include Bishop's Stortford[2]. A very unscientific look at the aerial
images of the town suggests to me that more than half the homes have
off street parking.

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

[1]
https://assets.publishing.service.go...48/2173483.pdf

[2] Closest to 40k in
https://www.thegeographist.com/uk-ci...pulation-1000/

who'd have thought that the silly litter town that was my previous place of
abode, with no Aldi or Lidl, would make it almost into the top 500.

If you're talking about Bishop's Stortford it's had an Aldi for
several years. By the back entrance to the station.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:38:07 on Wed,
11 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZVkwF8yevgVPVWwx5

Those garages aren't fit for purpose, because you couldn't fit a modern car
in them, and presumably the owners don't get anywhere else to put one.
They're essentially covered bike-and-junk shelters.

But we are where we are. And while those garages will be counted in the
stats being bandied about "40% have garages", I tend to agree they don't
in practice facilitate the charging of electric vehicles at all.

Those houses have no parking facility, for almost any kind of modern car.
The owners have to resort to parking their car on street, just like those in
Victoria terraces do. Their position is actually worse than a
Victorian-terrace-resident, since streets of terraces often have space for
much on-street parking.

This is nothing to do with electric cars as such - these houses are not
designed for cars at all (even if they claim otherwise).

Other developments at least admit that cars are parked outside these days:
https://goo.gl/maps/bpbaVTgDTCAJKpNA6
and charging here would be fine.

You wouldn't get much more than a Smart Car there, without obstructing
the pavement.

I think the Streetview car's lens is foreshortening the space, but you're
right it looks about 3-3.5m - supermini kind of size.

(although I don't know if there's a covenant about putting extra stuff on
the front of your house)

I've only seen covenants about satellite dishes, but if people invent
suitably ugly charging points, developers might catch on and start
banning them too.

More of the 'you can't stick anything on the front of your house and the
door has to be grey' kind of covenants.

Theo

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:48:57 on Tue, 10 Sep 2019,
tim... remarked:
There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.

but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just decide to
have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost

No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much bigger than
a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to premises. Unless the premises
supply is on overhead wires (typically rural areas), when there's a whole
other set of constraints in the overall amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)

County Councils provide the street lighting.

not where I live they don't :-)

But it isn't important

The issue is one of finding the money to pay for it

not which tier of government actually digs up the pevement.

and even if it's funded by commercial organisations recouping their
expenditure from pay per use, they have to have the certainty that HMG has
set a level playing field for them to work on

tim