So,

I've forgotten where we started the discussion of this issue but, for those
who are interested, I'll post what I have discovered here

It seems that someone has already asked an FOI that went much of the way to
answering the points I required and the answer (s)he received was:

"this information is already in the public domain, you will find it here"

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/node/23442

That was for 2015-16 as that was when the FOI was raised. Presumably there
are later versions but as I'm only interested in relative not absolute
figures, that will suffice

No doubt someone will pipe up with "but we knew that was there all along" in
which case "why didn't somebody tell me" :-)

And as part of the answer is a link to:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._passthrough=1

which provides addition useful information

Drilling down though the numbers, it seems that the amount charged to each
council is calculated as: the total percentage of the costs of all
concessionary travel made by their residents.

Though when I say concessionary travel, this is just (all flavours) of
Freedom pass. 60+ and National card usage is not detailed in this document.

Quite how the total costs of concessionary travel is calculated is not
clear. The individual total numbers are huge, but when pro rata-ed down to
individual card holders, range from £140.15 for Bexley residents to £405.11
for Hackney. So maybe not so much a big deal.

And whilst I was concerned that boroughs without tube links would be
disproportionally charged by a system that just counted entries/exists for
each mode, and it is also the case that 67% of the costs of all
concessionary travel is for bus travel, it does seem that the final charge
to boroughs that don't have tube line is at the bottom end of the scale -
perhaps those residents simply make fewer/shorter individual journey :-).

Finally, as you can see. It counts rail/tube exits to apportion the change.
How people who make journeys without tapping out are accounted for is
anyone's guess.

And finally,finally. Someone else was fussing about discretionary passes.
You can see from the linked spreadsheet that the number of these passes is
tiny - some boroughs issuing as few as 1 (one) card to their residents, um
resident. I think any non linear effect of these cards on the overall
statistics can be discounted.

tim

Freedom Passes are valid on National Rail services within the Greater London area
so even those without a nearby Tube line can utilise their passes on trains.
Ken Livingstone introduced free travel for children. I assume this counts as
concessionary travel and is included in the calculations.

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

Freedom Passes are valid on National Rail services within the Greater
London area
so even those without a nearby Tube line can utilise their passes on
trains.

only after 9:30


Ken Livingstone introduced free travel for children. I assume this
counts as
concessionary travel and is included in the calculations.

no

That is not funded by the boroughs

tim

On 08/01/2020 14:12, tim... wrote:
So,

I've forgotten where we started the discussion of this issue but, for
those who are interested, I'll post what I have discovered here

It seems that someone has already asked an FOI that went much of the way
to answering the points I required and the answer (s)he received was:

"this information is already in the public domain, you will find it here"

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/node/23442

That was for 2015-16 as that was when the FOI was raised.Â* Presumably
there are later versions but as I'm only interested in relative not
absolute figures, that will suffice

No doubt someone will pipe up with "but we knew that was there all
along" in which case "why didn't somebody tell me" :-)

And as part of the answer is a link to:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._passthrough=1


which provides addition useful information

Drilling down though the numbers, it seems that the amount charged to
each council is calculated as: the total percentage of the costs of all
concessionary travel made by their residents.

Though when I say concessionary travel, this is just (all flavours) of
Freedom pass.Â* 60+ and National card usage is not detailed in this
document.

Quite how the total costs of concessionary travel is calculated is not
clear.Â* The individual total numbers are huge, but when pro rata-ed down
to individual card holders, range from £140.15 for Bexley residents to
£405.11 for Hackney.Â* So maybe not so much a big deal.

And whilst I was concerned that boroughs without tube links would be
disproportionally charged by a system that just counted entries/exists
for each mode, and it is also the case that 67% of the costs of all
concessionary travel is for bus travel, it does seem that the final
charge to boroughs that don't have tube line is at the bottom end of the
scale - perhaps those residents simply make fewer/shorter individual
journey :-).

Finally, as you can see. It counts rail/tube exits to apportion the
change. How people who make journeys without tapping out are accounted
for is anyone's guess.

And finally,finally.Â* Someone else was fussing about discretionary
passes. You can see from the linked spreadsheet that the number of these
passes is tiny - some boroughs issuing as few as 1 (one) card to their
residents, um resident.Â* I think any non linear effect of these cards on
the overall statistics can be discounted.

tim

No idea why you needed "an investigation".

Nobody told you ample information is in the public domain because all
you need to do is search "Freedom Pass funding" with Google. That
reveals not just the current status but the entire history of the pass.

Just out of interest, what did you conclude as a result of your
investigation?

"MikeS" wrote in message
...
On 08/01/2020 14:12, tim... wrote:
So,

I've forgotten where we started the discussion of this issue but, for
those who are interested, I'll post what I have discovered here

It seems that someone has already asked an FOI that went much of the way
to answering the points I required and the answer (s)he received was:

"this information is already in the public domain, you will find it here"

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/node/23442

That was for 2015-16 as that was when the FOI was raised. Presumably
there are later versions but as I'm only interested in relative not
absolute figures, that will suffice

No doubt someone will pipe up with "but we knew that was there all along"
in which case "why didn't somebody tell me" :-)

And as part of the answer is a link to:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._passthrough=1
which provides addition useful information

Drilling down though the numbers, it seems that the amount charged to
each council is calculated as: the total percentage of the costs of all
concessionary travel made by their residents.

Though when I say concessionary travel, this is just (all flavours) of
Freedom pass. 60+ and National card usage is not detailed in this
document.

Quite how the total costs of concessionary travel is calculated is not
clear. The individual total numbers are huge, but when pro rata-ed down
to individual card holders, range from £140.15 for Bexley residents to
£405.11 for Hackney. So maybe not so much a big deal.

And whilst I was concerned that boroughs without tube links would be
disproportionally charged by a system that just counted entries/exists
for each mode, and it is also the case that 67% of the costs of all
concessionary travel is for bus travel, it does seem that the final
charge to boroughs that don't have tube line is at the bottom end of the
scale - perhaps those residents simply make fewer/shorter individual
journey :-).

Finally, as you can see. It counts rail/tube exits to apportion the
change. How people who make journeys without tapping out are accounted
for is anyone's guess.

And finally,finally. Someone else was fussing about discretionary
passes. You can see from the linked spreadsheet that the number of these
passes is tiny - some boroughs issuing as few as 1 (one) card to their
residents, um resident. I think any non linear effect of these cards on
the overall statistics can be discounted.

tim

No idea why you needed "an investigation".

Yes I did because nobody I was discussing this item with knew the answer (to
how the funding is apportioned between councils)

Nobody told you ample information is in the public domain because all you
need to do is search "Freedom Pass funding" with Google.

Except that I didn't think of that search string to use

Instead of "funding" I used "paid for"

and all of the results of that are how is freedom pass "paid for" by uses
(I.e. it isn't, it's free)

I got nothing explaining the contributions by councils.

That reveals not just the current status but the entire history of the
pass.

Just out of interest, what did you conclude as a result of your
investigation?

As per my PP

tim