MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/04/2020 22:23, Lew 1 wrote:

Edinburgh was introducing them when I was there last Summer, along with
on-board videos very carefully (and ludicrously for someone used to London)
explaining and demonstrating how to board the bus using the front, and how
to leave the bus using the middle.

However, even with double doors, they still perform the peculiar Edinburgh
ritual of letting people off before the stop, but refusing to let people on
until the bus in front has left and the driver can pull up to the stand
proper. This does rather reduce the benefit of having double doors.

It's not specific to Edinburgh, we were certainly told not to let people
on (or off, for that matter) away from stops when I started driving in
Birmingham in 1998.

Something to do with insurance cover they said, whether it was bs or not
I don't know, anyway a lot of drivers still did it, although I never did
if I could avoid it.

But this isn’t away from stops, it’s specifically at stops. The driver will
pull up behind a bus already at the stop and open the doors to let people
off, then shut the doors and wait until the bus (or two, or three!) in
front have moved off before pulling forward to the stand to let the queue
of people on.

It just seems to be a rule that each stand can have no more than one bus
loading at any time, but the same limit doesn’t apply to offloading. The
way it slows down a bus’ progress is maddening if you’re behind a busy
route and you constantly have to wait for everyone on the bus in front to
get on and pay and sit down before your driver will pull forward to find
no-one to let on at all. Cue the same at every. Single. Stop.

Lew

On 17/04/2020 15:25, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/04/2020 13:44, Recliner wrote:

"Free travel and middle door-only boarding will be temporarily introduced
from Monday to protect drivers and keep passengers safe from the
coronavirus, the operator said in a statement."

This is all very well, but London is one of the few places in the UK
where buses have middle doors, they certainly don't up here. I'm not
sure how many places other than London do, ISTR York does, but it's been
a while since I was last there.

London was sensible in keeping them - after a wobble in the 90s. Much
of the country, especially in the larger urban areas, had dual-door
buses decades ago as you will remember, and IMO changing that was a
mistake. Some forward-thinkers are bringing them back (Brighton,
Bristol, Oxford in the past, and now Dublin, where the bad idea also
spread), but I didn't expect *this* to be an argument in their favour.

London's move to board by the middle door comes about a month after it
was done in several other European bus networks, I wonder how much
illness and worse could have been avoided if TfL had made this decision
earlier (or if more passengers had listened to sense and stayed at
home). It's still no use for the routes that need the smallest buses, I
don't think any London operator has the shortest Enviro200 for instance
(8.9 m) with a second door. A standard bus may not fit round the
corners of these routes. I can only think of the X26 that has standard
size buses with only one door, there may be a few others.

Richard.

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 04:47:40PM +0100, Richard wrote:

London's move to board by the middle door comes about a month after it
was done in several other European bus networks, I wonder how much
illness and worse could have been avoided if TfL had made this decision
earlier ...

Very little, I would think, given that drivers are separated from
passengers by a plastic screen rather more substantial than the plastic
screens that are popping up in places like pharmacies. This change is
just an attempt to stop the public transport unions behaving like
bell-ends when management have more important things to worry about.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Seven o'clock in the morning is something that
happens to those less fortunate than me

On 19/04/2020 22:27, David Cantrell wrote:
On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 04:47:40PM +0100, Richard wrote:

London's move to board by the middle door comes about a month after it
was done in several other European bus networks, I wonder how much
illness and worse could have been avoided if TfL had made this decision
earlier ...

Very little, I would think, given that drivers are separated from
passengers by a plastic screen rather more substantial than the plastic
screens that are popping up in places like pharmacies. This change is
just an attempt to stop the public transport unions behaving like
bell-ends when management have more important things to worry about.

Those plastic screens are less than useless if a yob decides to have a
go at you. Glass has more strength to it, although back in the day I was
once driving a Metro double decker which had a glass screen. A friendly
local decided he didn't want to pay his fare and when I challenged him
he punched the screen with such force that his hand went straight
through it. This was 1/4" thick glass, remember.

He then got off and walked away like nothing had happened. Never did
find out if he hurt himself..!!


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

On 19/04/2020 16:47, Richard wrote:

London was sensible in keeping them - after a wobble in the 90s.Â* Much
of the country, especially in the larger urban areas, had dual-door
buses decades ago as you will remember, and IMO changing that was a
mistake.Â* Some forward-thinkers are bringing them back (Brighton,
Bristol, Oxford in the past, and now Dublin, where the bad idea also
spread), but I didn't expect *this* to be an argument in their favour.

Birmingham tried them very briefly in the 70's but withdrew them almost
immediately as the local "yoof" found that boarding via the middle door
meant they bypassed the driver and the ticket machine.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:47:40 +0100
Richard wrote:
On 17/04/2020 15:25, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/04/2020 13:44, Recliner wrote:

"Free travel and middle door-only boarding will be temporarily introduced
from Monday to protect drivers and keep passengers safe from the
coronavirus, the operator said in a statement."

This is all very well, but London is one of the few places in the UK
where buses have middle doors, they certainly don't up here. I'm not
sure how many places other than London do, ISTR York does, but it's been
a while since I was last there.

London was sensible in keeping them - after a wobble in the 90s. Much
of the country, especially in the larger urban areas, had dual-door
buses decades ago as you will remember, and IMO changing that was a
mistake. Some forward-thinkers are bringing them back (Brighton,
Bristol, Oxford in the past, and now Dublin, where the bad idea also
spread), but I didn't expect *this* to be an argument in their favour.

London's move to board by the middle door comes about a month after it
was done in several other European bus networks, I wonder how much
illness and worse could have been avoided if TfL had made this decision

Sod all I should think. The drives who got it almost certainly got it elsewhere,
not through a thick plastic screen via people who walk past in seconds.

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
so it says:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9470161.html

I got on at the front door and tapped my card this morning


But, like many bus passengers, you were presumably travelling free?

only to me

my ride is still "accounted for" in order to work out how much my LA should
pay - as part of an averaging process, not directly for that ride.

tim

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
so it says:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9470161.html

I got on at the front door and tapped my card this morning


But, like many bus passengers, you were presumably travelling free?

only to me

my ride is still "accounted for" in order to work out how much my LA should
pay - as part of an averaging process, not directly for that ride.

It's only accounted for as a way of divvying up a fixed budget. It doesn't
affect TfL's income.

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
so it says:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9470161.html

I got on at the front door and tapped my card this morning


But, like many bus passengers, you were presumably travelling free?

only to me

my ride is still "accounted for" in order to work out how much my LA
should
pay - as part of an averaging process, not directly for that ride.

It's only accounted for as a way of divvying up a fixed budget. It doesn't
affect TfL's income.

I know

I thought that was what I said (albeit a long way round)

but OTOH, of they aren't taking money for paying punters, the deficit that
has to be made up will be greater

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
so it says:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9470161.html

I got on at the front door and tapped my card this morning


But, like many bus passengers, you were presumably travelling free?

only to me

my ride is still "accounted for" in order to work out how much my LA
should
pay - as part of an averaging process, not directly for that ride.

It's only accounted for as a way of divvying up a fixed budget. It doesn't
affect TfL's income.

I know

I thought that was what I said (albeit a long way round)

but OTOH, of they aren't taking money for paying punters, the deficit that
has to be made up will be greater


I don't think there are many would-be paying punters at the moment, so it
hardly matters if their fares are collected or not.