wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:40:03 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 31/08/2020 09:46, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:

https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...ould-be-demoli

shed-1-6733534

Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill.
All
the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting

track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons
in
comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle
service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty
popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green.


So a couple of hundred, at most, commuters a day compared to the white
elephant carrying tens of thousands.

A couple of hundred? You've never been to muswell hill have you.

And crossrail sure as hell won't be carrying 10s of thousands anytime soon
even if it does open next year which it probably won't.

It definitely won't open in 2021, and won't fully open till at least 2023.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:30:34 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:40:03 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 31/08/2020 09:46, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:


https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...ould-be-demoli


shed-1-6733534

Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill.

All
the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and
putting

track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost
buttons
in
comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle

service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be
pretty
popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green.


So a couple of hundred, at most, commuters a day compared to the white
elephant carrying tens of thousands.

A couple of hundred? You've never been to muswell hill have you.

And crossrail sure as hell won't be carrying 10s of thousands anytime soon
even if it does open next year which it probably won't.

It definitely won't open in 2021, and won't fully open till at least 2023.

This is beyond incompetant management and unrealistic tendering timescales. I
wonder if there's been some active sabotage, supplies theft or some other
criminal activities going on down at site level that they don't want the public
to know about. These are huge sites and even with Covid workers should be able
to socially distance quite adequately to get on with the job.

In message , writes
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , writes
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b
e-demoli
shed-1-6733534

Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill.
All
the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting
track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons
in
comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle
service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty
popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green.

It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the
Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway,
part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the,
then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station

I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of
maintaining
specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a
couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area
needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there.

As I said, at the time, it would have been fully funded by the EEC. The
stock would have been driverless and could run if required 24/7 . It was
capable to be set up by demand, from one carriage to multi. It could be
run on rails or be suspended.

I arranged for a working model to be displayed to show the
possibilities.

My concern at the time, when Alexandra Palace was being rebuilt, (it had
largely been destroyed in a fire in the 1960s when it was run by the
GLC) was lack of mass public transport there with all the things that
were planned.Plus access to the tube at Highgate from places like
Muswell Hill and Crouch End



A feasibility study was turned down by those who said it would ruin the
Parkland Walk

There's always a few nimbies.

All very well saying "just laying a
couple of extra miles of track out from Highgate depot" like the
proposed widening of Archway Road at the same time, with nimbie
demonstrations at public inquiry after public enquiry there were more
than a few nimbies, and they could be aggressive.
--
Bryan Morris

Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , writes
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , writes
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b
e-demoli
shed-1-6733534

Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill.
All
the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting
track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons
in
comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle
service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty
popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green.

It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the
Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway,
part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the,
then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station

I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of
maintaining
specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a
couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area
needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there.

As I said, at the time, it would have been fully funded by the EEC. The
stock would have been driverless and could run if required 24/7 . It was
capable to be set up by demand, from one carriage to multi. It could be
run on rails or be suspended.

I arranged for a working model to be displayed to show the
possibilities.

My concern at the time, when Alexandra Palace was being rebuilt, (it had
largely been destroyed in a fire in the 1960s when it was run by the
GLC)

Which fire was that?

I know of the large one in 1980 because the Great British Beer Festival was
held there and despite the fire went ahead in marquees in the grounds .
The photo of the Palace burning at night made a good cover for the
programme which I still have, nowadays there would probably screams of
indignation at such a photo being used in that manner.

The building at the time was no longer owned by the GLC but Haringey the
council you were a member of so trying to blame the GLC is either political
point scoring or just poor memory.

Your idea no doubt made with the best of intentions sounds out of the same
mould as the monorails that by now should have been running for a couple of
decades now around Southampton and Portsmouth. These ideas never seem to
get beyond the artist impression in the local rag *
as when looked at from a practical point of view they become anything but.

The design you mention sounds like an adapted alpine ski lift.

GH

In message , Marland
writes
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , writes
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , writes
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b
e-demoli
shed-1-6733534

Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to
muswell hill.
All
the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings
and putting
track back down and restoring highgate high level station would
cost buttons
in
comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure
a shuttle
service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would
be pretty
popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green.

It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the
Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway,
part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the,
then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station

I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of
maintaining
specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than
just laying a
couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either
way the area
needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock
around there.

As I said, at the time, it would have been fully funded by the EEC. The
stock would have been driverless and could run if required 24/7 . It was
capable to be set up by demand, from one carriage to multi. It could be
run on rails or be suspended.

I arranged for a working model to be displayed to show the
possibilities.

My concern at the time, when Alexandra Palace was being rebuilt, (it had
largely been destroyed in a fire in the 1960s when it was run by the
GLC)

Which fire was that?

I know of the large one in 1980 because the Great British Beer Festival was
held there and despite the fire went ahead in marquees in the grounds .
The photo of the Palace burning at night made a good cover for the
programme which I still have, nowadays there would probably screams of
indignation at such a photo being used in that manner.

The building at the time was no longer owned by the GLC but Haringey the
council you were a member of so trying to blame the GLC is either political
point scoring or just poor memory.

Not political point scoring. Was just explaining, to those not aware,
that Haringey took over the trusteeship of Alexandra Palace from the
GLC in 1980 and then later in 1980 following the major fire (yes the
1960's was much smaller) and Haringey made these grandiose rebuilding
plans (and overspent by £30million said by the attorney-general in 1991
to be illegal). It was supposed to be financed by the £8m dowry from
the GLC and £42m insurance claim

My concern at the time was with these plans, (which at the time included
a hotel) that there was no adequate public transport. Hence my post.

Your idea no doubt made with the best of intentions sounds out of the same
mould as the monorails that by now should have been running for a couple of
decades now around Southampton and Portsmouth. These ideas never seem to
get beyond the artist impression in the local rag *
as when looked at from a practical point of view they become anything but.

The design you mention sounds like an adapted alpine ski lift.

GH

I suppose it was, but a feasibility study was rejected by a majority by
the committee for other reasons.
--
Bryan Morris

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:39:05 +0100
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:46:10 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...-could-be-demo
li
shed-1-6733534

Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill.
All
the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting

track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons
in
comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle
service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty
popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green.

Which line? I believe the original 'Northern Heights' project was to
extend the Northern Line to Alexandra Palace. Are you looking at a
branch or just a shuttle from the high level station at Highgate? If
the latter, could it be trams rather than trains?

Yes, a shuttle to highgate high level. Taking the line back to finsbury park
would be next to impossible now and the short section from muswell hill to the
palace has a school built on the trackbed so thats a non starter. I guess you
could use a tram but given there's a large northern line depot at highgate it
would probably be easier just to use a northern line train, perhaps 3 cars only.


Although they're formed of two half-sets (DM-T-UNDM), I don't think any
double-ended half sets exist, so there are no three-car trains to run.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , writes
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b
e-demoli
shed-1-6733534

Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill.
All
the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting
track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons
in
comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle
service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty
popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green.

It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the
Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway,
part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the,
then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station

I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of maintaining
specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a
couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area
needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there.


Are the people in the motor vehicles all going to the same place as the
train would take them?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Boltar is right. Muswell Hill will generate far more than
a few hundred passengers a day. Like Roehampton and
Collier Row, it is a substantial suburban areas with no rail
service at all. Residents have to travel first to Highgate,
Crouch Hill or Finsbury Park to catch a train. A local railway
station would be very welcome to denizens of Muswell Hill.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 17:46:41 +0100
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , writes
There's always a few nimbies.

All very well saying "just laying a
couple of extra miles of track out from Highgate depot" like the
proposed widening of Archway Road at the same time, with nimbie
demonstrations at public inquiry after public enquiry there were more
than a few nimbies, and they could be aggressive.

To be fair , if you go into politics you have to be prepared to deal with
these sorts of people.

On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 07:12:50 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:39:05 +0100
would probably be easier just to use a northern line train, perhaps 3 cars
only.


Although they're formed of two half-sets (DM-T-UNDM), I don't think any
double-ended half sets exist, so there are no three-car trains to run.

Ah, didn't know that. Well I'm sure they could sort something out but its
all academic anyway as the line would never have happened anyway and certainly
not now with the state of TfLs finances. Its a good thing the battersea
extension is almost done or that would probably have got the chop but I
suspect the bakerloo extension is now dead in the water.