On 19/10/2020 13:46, Recliner wrote:
With all the fuss being made, rightly, about the soon-to-depart 38TS on the Island Line, it occurred to me that SWR has
another Birmingham-built fleet due to retire soon, probably with no home to go to. Like the class 483s, these trains are
being retired for a second time, but their total life may only be a quarter as long. I think both classes were even
built in the same former MCCW factory, in Washwood Heath.

Yes, I'm talking about the unloved class 458 fleet. I'd not travelled in them before, so I felt I should give them a try
while they're still in service. I found that they're surprisingly comfortable — I wonder if Ian Walmsley managed to
sneak comfortable seats in when the 458s and 460s were being refurbished to become the 458/5s?

The other thing I was keen to catch up on was the rapidly-developing Manhattan-style canyon that's developing in Nine
Elms. A few decades ago, these were railway lands, full of tracks, loco sheds and turntables. Then they because
warehouses, the New Covent Garden Market a Royal Mail depot, courier firms and light industrial units. Now, they look
like they're Manhattan transplanted. Anyone who's not travelled into Waterloo in the last couple of years might be
amazed at what's erupting, with multiple blocks taller than the Walkie-Talkie. Soon, it won't be possible to see
Battersea Power station except from the river, so hemmed-in will it be.

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158


They are making a similar mess of the Manchester skyline, blighted by
enormous monstrosities, and leaving much of ground level in almost
permanent shadow.

On 19/10/2020 13:46, Recliner wrote:

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158

I would have guessed they were taken from your Delorian, given the 2021 date in
the album title.

Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

On 19/10/2020 13:46, Recliner wrote:

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158

I would have guessed they were taken from your Delorian, given the 2021 date in
the album title.

Oops, thanks for the correction — I was obviously wishing 2020 to be over
as soon as possible!

Bevan Price wrote:
On 19/10/2020 13:46, Recliner wrote:
With all the fuss being made, rightly, about the soon-to-depart 38TS on
the Island Line, it occurred to me that SWR has
another Birmingham-built fleet due to retire soon, probably with no home
to go to. Like the class 483s, these trains are
being retired for a second time, but their total life may only be a
quarter as long. I think both classes were even
built in the same former MCCW factory, in Washwood Heath.

Yes, I'm talking about the unloved class 458 fleet. I'd not travelled in
them before, so I felt I should give them a try
while they're still in service. I found that they're surprisingly
comfortable — I wonder if Ian Walmsley managed to
sneak comfortable seats in when the 458s and 460s were being refurbished
to become the 458/5s?

The other thing I was keen to catch up on was the rapidly-developing
Manhattan-style canyon that's developing in Nine
Elms. A few decades ago, these were railway lands, full of tracks, loco
sheds and turntables. Then they because
warehouses, the New Covent Garden Market a Royal Mail depot, courier
firms and light industrial units. Now, they look
like they're Manhattan transplanted. Anyone who's not travelled into
Waterloo in the last couple of years might be
amazed at what's erupting, with multiple blocks taller than the
Walkie-Talkie. Soon, it won't be possible to see
Battersea Power station except from the river, so hemmed-in will it be.

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158


They are making a similar mess of the Manchester skyline, blighted by
enormous monstrosities, and leaving much of ground level in almost
permanent shadow.


I was using an ultra-wide angle lens, which makes things look further away
than they are. It hides just how close those expensive flats are to the
busy railway. The trains are not running quickly, but they still make some
noise.

The blocks are also close to each other, so many of the flats look straight
out on to the next block. That would be expected in cheap flats, but these
aren't.

Recliner wrote:

I was using an ultra-wide angle lens, which makes things look further away
than they are. It hides just how close those expensive flats are to the
busy railway. The trains are not running quickly, but they still make some
noise.

The blocks are also close to each other, so many of the flats look straight
out on to the next block. That would be expected in cheap flats, but these
aren't.

If they’re being used as investments/money laundering opportunties that may
not matter, since many foreign-owned London flats are allegedly empty most
of the time anyway.

Sam

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On 19/10/2020 21:27, Sam Wilson wrote:

not matter, since many foreign-owned London flats are allegedly empty most
of the time anyway.

I know it is one of those things that "everyone knows", but has anyone
ever looked into to the extent of this? Are there huge numbers of flats
which could lower general property prices/reduce commuting/house the
homeless/facilitate more immigration (delete accoording to taste), or it
it one of those things which someone once suggested and it just stuck?


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Arthur Figgis wrote:

I know it is one of those things that "everyone knows", but has anyone
ever looked into to the extent of this? Are there huge numbers of flats
which could lower general property prices/reduce commuting/house the
homeless/facilitate more immigration (delete accoording to taste), or it
it one of those things which someone once suggested and it just stuck?

And of course ignores the benefits of unoccupied flats - i.e. although they
still pay council tax on the full value of the property, they create zero
polution or congestion and make no demand on services. I supose this is somewhat
offset by the fact that they aren't spending any money in the area either.

Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:

I know it is one of those things that "everyone knows", but has anyone
ever looked into to the extent of this? Are there huge numbers of flats
which could lower general property prices/reduce commuting/house the
homeless/facilitate more immigration (delete accoording to taste), or it
it one of those things which someone once suggested and it just stuck?

And of course ignores the benefits of unoccupied flats - i.e. although they
still pay council tax on the full value of the property, they create zero
polution or congestion and make no demand on services. I supose this is somewhat
offset by the fact that they aren't spending any money in the area either.


If there's too many of them, they create very sterile areas, with few
shops, pubs, restaurants or other local amenities.

In fact, some of these foreign-oriented blocks are almost designed to do
that: they're attached to a luxury hotel, that provides all services. The
idea is that the foreign owners use them as holiday or guest homes,
occupied for a few weeks or months a year, with the occasional occupants
getting whatever they need from the host hotel.

They probably never use the marble kitchen, fancy washing machine, etc.
Just let the hotel know when they're arriving on a visit, and it organises
limo transport from the airport, stocks the fridge as required, makes
bookings in the hotel restaurants or gourmet room service, dry cleaning,
and anything else the concierge can organise. And, of course, at the end of
the visit, the hotel organises limo transport to the airport, and cleans up
the flat to perfection.

I think this is what what some rich parents of foreign students in Britain
do. They can visit London for school/college holidays, and indulge in some
shopping/shows/sporting events at the same time. And it's an essential
bolthole if their home country has a coup or just an aggressive
anti-corruption drive. In between, it's a fairly secure home for some of
their dodgy wealth.

On 20/10/2020 01:53, Recliner wrote:
Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:

I know it is one of those things that "everyone knows", but has anyone
ever looked into to the extent of this? Are there huge numbers of flats
which could lower general property prices/reduce commuting/house the
homeless/facilitate more immigration (delete accoording to taste), or it
it one of those things which someone once suggested and it just stuck?

And of course ignores the benefits of unoccupied flats - i.e. although they
still pay council tax on the full value of the property, they create zero
polution or congestion and make no demand on services. I supose this is somewhat
offset by the fact that they aren't spending any money in the area either.


If there's too many of them, they create very sterile areas, with few
shops, pubs, restaurants or other local amenities.

No more so than the fully-occupied two-storey buildings in the suburbs.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Monkees - 1969 - Instant Replay

Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 19/10/2020 21:27, Sam Wilson wrote:

not matter, since many foreign-owned London flats are allegedly empty most
of the time anyway.

I know it is one of those things that "everyone knows", but has anyone
ever looked into to the extent of this? Are there huge numbers of flats
which could lower general property prices/reduce commuting/house the
homeless/facilitate more immigration (delete accoording to taste), or it
it one of those things which someone once suggested and it just stuck?

2017, so it may be out of date, and it’s the Guardian so some of our
residents here may discount it, and occupancy is mentioned in pasing,
though with a reference to an earlier report, but it does say: many London
properties are foreign owned; some of them are rarely occupied.

Sam

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