With all the fuss being made, rightly, about the soon-to-depart 38TS on the Island Line, it occurred to me that SWR has
another Birmingham-built fleet due to retire soon, probably with no home to go to. Like the class 483s, these trains are
being retired for a second time, but their total life may only be a quarter as long. I think both classes were even
built in the same former MCCW factory, in Washwood Heath.

Yes, I'm talking about the unloved class 458 fleet. I'd not travelled in them before, so I felt I should give them a try
while they're still in service. I found that they're surprisingly comfortable — I wonder if Ian Walmsley managed to
sneak comfortable seats in when the 458s and 460s were being refurbished to become the 458/5s?

The other thing I was keen to catch up on was the rapidly-developing Manhattan-style canyon that's developing in Nine
Elms. A few decades ago, these were railway lands, full of tracks, loco sheds and turntables. Then they because
warehouses, the New Covent Garden Market a Royal Mail depot, courier firms and light industrial units. Now, they look
like they're Manhattan transplanted. Anyone who's not travelled into Waterloo in the last couple of years might be
amazed at what's erupting, with multiple blocks taller than the Walkie-Talkie. Soon, it won't be possible to see
Battersea Power station except from the river, so hemmed-in will it be.

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:46:44 +0100
Recliner wrote:
With all the fuss being made, rightly, about the soon-to-depart 38TS on the
Island Line, it occurred to me that SWR has
another Birmingham-built fleet due to retire soon, probably with no home to go
to. Like the class 483s, these trains are
being retired for a second time, but their total life may only be a quarter as
long. I think both classes were even

It strikes me a lot of money has being spent in buying new stock on the
railways when the old stock is perfectly servicable which would be fine if
money were growing on trees , but it wasn't even before covid. Binning
trains built in 2000 (virtually brand new if it was on LU) just seems an
absurd waste of resource.

On 19/10/2020 13:46, Recliner wrote:
With all the fuss being made, rightly, about the soon-to-depart 38TS on the Island Line, it occurred to me that SWR has
another Birmingham-built fleet due to retire soon, probably with no home to go to. Like the class 483s, these trains are
being retired for a second time, but their total life may only be a quarter as long. I think both classes were even
built in the same former MCCW factory, in Washwood Heath.

Yes, I'm talking about the unloved class 458 fleet. I'd not travelled in them before, so I felt I should give them a try
while they're still in service. I found that they're surprisingly comfortable — I wonder if Ian Walmsley managed to
sneak comfortable seats in when the 458s and 460s were being refurbished to become the 458/5s?

The other thing I was keen to catch up on was the rapidly-developing Manhattan-style canyon that's developing in Nine
Elms. A few decades ago, these were railway lands, full of tracks, loco sheds and turntables. Then they because
warehouses, the New Covent Garden Market a Royal Mail depot, courier firms and light industrial units. Now, they look
like they're Manhattan transplanted. Anyone who's not travelled into Waterloo in the last couple of years might be
amazed at what's erupting, with multiple blocks taller than the Walkie-Talkie. Soon, it won't be possible to see
Battersea Power station except from the river, so hemmed-in will it be.

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158


They are making a similar mess of the Manchester skyline, blighted by
enormous monstrosities, and leaving much of ground level in almost
permanent shadow.

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:53:40 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:46:44 +0100
Recliner wrote:
With all the fuss being made, rightly, about the soon-to-depart 38TS on the
Island Line, it occurred to me that SWR has
another Birmingham-built fleet due to retire soon, probably with no home to go
to. Like the class 483s, these trains are
being retired for a second time, but their total life may only be a quarter as
long. I think both classes were even

It strikes me a lot of money has being spent in buying new stock on the
railways when the old stock is perfectly servicable which would be fine if
money were growing on trees , but it wasn't even before covid. Binning
trains built in 2000 (virtually brand new if it was on LU) just seems an
absurd waste of resource.


What would be really strange is if the 458s really are scrapped when much older EMUs remain in service, such as the
313s.

Recliner wrote:

while they're still in service. I found that they're surprisingly
comfortable — I wonder if Ian Walmsley managed to
sneak comfortable seats in when the 458s and 460s were being refurbished
to become the 458/5s?

The other thing I was keen to catch up on was the rapidly-developing
Manhattan-style canyon that's developing in Nine
Elms. A few decades ago, these were railway lands, full of tracks, loco
sheds and turntables. Then they because
warehouses, the New Covent Garden Market a Royal Mail depot, courier
firms and light industrial units. Now, they look
like they're Manhattan transplanted. Anyone who's not travelled into
Waterloo in the last couple of years might be
amazed at what's erupting, with multiple blocks taller than the
Walkie-Talkie. Soon, it won't be possible to see
Battersea Power station except from the river, so hemmed-in will it be.

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158


One of the nice things about the entry to Waterloo was the view of the
River and the Palace of Westminster you once got and while for commuters it
was something they were used to for those from further afield it could add
to the atmosphere of a visit to the Capital.
As you say it has been eroded in recent times and it is now just a boring
view of glass and concrete apart from the odd glimpse along a couple of
streets that penetrate the Pilkington Wall.

Should make the inmates of the US Embassy feel at home though.

GH

On 19/10/2020 13:46, Recliner wrote:

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158

I would have guessed they were taken from your Delorian, given the 2021 date in
the album title.

Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

On 19/10/2020 13:46, Recliner wrote:

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158

I would have guessed they were taken from your Delorian, given the 2021 date in
the album title.

Oops, thanks for the correction — I was obviously wishing 2020 to be over
as soon as possible!

Bevan Price wrote:
On 19/10/2020 13:46, Recliner wrote:
With all the fuss being made, rightly, about the soon-to-depart 38TS on
the Island Line, it occurred to me that SWR has
another Birmingham-built fleet due to retire soon, probably with no home
to go to. Like the class 483s, these trains are
being retired for a second time, but their total life may only be a
quarter as long. I think both classes were even
built in the same former MCCW factory, in Washwood Heath.

Yes, I'm talking about the unloved class 458 fleet. I'd not travelled in
them before, so I felt I should give them a try
while they're still in service. I found that they're surprisingly
comfortable — I wonder if Ian Walmsley managed to
sneak comfortable seats in when the 458s and 460s were being refurbished
to become the 458/5s?

The other thing I was keen to catch up on was the rapidly-developing
Manhattan-style canyon that's developing in Nine
Elms. A few decades ago, these were railway lands, full of tracks, loco
sheds and turntables. Then they because
warehouses, the New Covent Garden Market a Royal Mail depot, courier
firms and light industrial units. Now, they look
like they're Manhattan transplanted. Anyone who's not travelled into
Waterloo in the last couple of years might be
amazed at what's erupting, with multiple blocks taller than the
Walkie-Talkie. Soon, it won't be possible to see
Battersea Power station except from the river, so hemmed-in will it be.

I took some photos through a slightly grubby window of a moving class 458/5:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157716527707158


They are making a similar mess of the Manchester skyline, blighted by
enormous monstrosities, and leaving much of ground level in almost
permanent shadow.


I was using an ultra-wide angle lens, which makes things look further away
than they are. It hides just how close those expensive flats are to the
busy railway. The trains are not running quickly, but they still make some
noise.

The blocks are also close to each other, so many of the flats look straight
out on to the next block. That would be expected in cheap flats, but these
aren't.

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 14:59:19 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:53:40 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:46:44 +0100
Recliner wrote:
With all the fuss being made, rightly, about the soon-to-depart 38TS on the
Island Line, it occurred to me that SWR has
another Birmingham-built fleet due to retire soon, probably with no home to
go
to. Like the class 483s, these trains are
being retired for a second time, but their total life may only be a quarter
as
long. I think both classes were even

It strikes me a lot of money has being spent in buying new stock on the
railways when the old stock is perfectly servicable which would be fine if
money were growing on trees , but it wasn't even before covid. Binning
trains built in 2000 (virtually brand new if it was on LU) just seems an
absurd waste of resource.


What would be really strange is if the 458s really are scrapped when much
older EMUs remain in service, such as the
313s.

And the 319s which have been given a new lease of life, though I suspect
the hydrogen train is a non starter. An entire carraige full of equipment and
still only reaching 50mph isn't going to cut it anywhere.

Recliner wrote:

I was using an ultra-wide angle lens, which makes things look further away
than they are. It hides just how close those expensive flats are to the
busy railway. The trains are not running quickly, but they still make some
noise.

The blocks are also close to each other, so many of the flats look straight
out on to the next block. That would be expected in cheap flats, but these
aren't.

If they’re being used as investments/money laundering opportunties that may
not matter, since many foreign-owned London flats are allegedly empty most
of the time anyway.

Sam

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