On 08/12/2020 11:10, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Driving longer distances with fewer stops is always considered
better/easier than driving shorter distances with many stops.

Also the larger (geographically) TOCs will offer opportunities for
relocation to other depots (I'm guessing most Crossrail drivers won’t want
that right now, but might at some unspecified future point); eg I know many
ex-Paddington crew now based at
Worcester/Bristol/Swansea/Exeter/Plymouth/Penzance.

Thank you Anna; that makes a lot of sense. I'm not a driver but if the
simulators are in any way accurate then I think I could learn to start
off and keep moving as long as nothing goes wrong. The challenging bit
is getting the train to stop within walking distance of a platform.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:18:45 on Tue, 8
Dec 2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

What's this "ultra long haul" thing got to do with anything? The
majority of transatlantic flights are 10-12hrs. Have they got four
pilots, and only do one round trip a week?

Usually only three pilots for those medium distances. But you mentioned
flights to the Far East (a rather quaint term), which are longer, and some
need four pilots. And, yes, they'd average less than one round trip a week.

In message , at 13:40:46 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:18:45 on Tue, 8
Dec 2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly
less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

What's this "ultra long haul" thing got to do with anything? The
majority of transatlantic flights are 10-12hrs. Have they got four
pilots, and only do one round trip a week?

Usually only three pilots for those medium distances. But you mentioned
flights to the Far East (a rather quaint term),

huh?

which are longer, and some need four pilots. And, yes, they'd average
less than one round trip a week.

LAX to Japan is 12hrs.
--
Roland Perry

Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.

Sam

[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes
--
The entity formerly known as
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.

Sam

[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes

I think there's up to an hour of interesting or varied work at each end of
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.

wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.


But less rewarding as a result.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.


That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...drivers-up-to-
18-month


s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.

To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.


That's not necessarily a good thing...

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Exactly.

(Waterloo and City drivers also do the Central Line, btw)

Stourbridge shuttle crews are probably the most restricted on the network,
other than those who only drive in depots or yards.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/12/2020 09:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...drivers-up-to-
18-month


s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8


It's nice "work" if you can get it.Â* But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the
generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay
north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky
trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the
economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.

To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

The driving is not confined to the tunnel section, there's plenty of
open-air driving at each end. So would be much the same as driving the
current suburban services at each end but with a bit of tube driving in
the middle for variety.


The previous TOC drivers of what's now TfL Rail and will become Crossrail,
would have driven other routes too, not just Reading/Shenfield terminators.



Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 08/12/2020 20:22, Recliner wrote:
Sam Wilson wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.

Sam

[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes

I think there's up to an hour of interesting or varied work at each end of
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.


I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.


That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.

Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?