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#71
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NY wrote:
"Tweed" wrote in message ... It's just a cultural thing, like many Europeans have names like Magnus Magnus*son*, and innumerable similar Slavic suffices. Slavic? I thought it came from the Icelandic. There surnames come from the first name of the parent. So Magnusson is the male offspring of a chap whose first name was Magnus something elseson. If he also had a female offspring her surname would be Magnusdottir. (Magnus’s daughter) It made for an interesting telephone book.... It must make genealogy "interesting" because every generation of a family will have a different surname, as will brothers and sisters. In Icelandic, do *both* the sons and the daughters take the father's first name? I have vague memories of being told that daughter's sometimes take the mother's first name - so Magnus and Oddny (*) might have a son with a surname Magnusson and a daughter with a surname Oddnydottir (rather than Magnusdottir). Do Icelandic women generally take their husband's surname after marriage or do they normally / always keep their maiden surname? Search for “iceland” he https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names Sam -- The entity formerly known as Spit the dummy to reply |
#72
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Sam Wilson wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote: On 05/01/2021 18:17, Sam Wilson wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:22:35 on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, Tweed remarked: It's just a cultural thing, like many Europeans have names like Magnus Magnus*son*, and innumerable similar Slavic suffices. Slavic? I thought it came from the Icelandic. There surnames come from the first name of the parent. Yes, hence the use of the word "similar" (not "identical") I’ve recently found this fascinating and instructive: https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names The Afghan politican Abdullah Abdullah allegedly only had one name originally, but he got so fed up with people from elsehwere asking for his other name that he decided it was easiest to double it so he had one. George Brown, the tired and emotional Labour politician, became Lord George-Brown on his elevation to the peerage because he still wanted to be called George Brown, even though peers are conventionally known only by their surnames. He had to change his name to George George-Brown to do it, though. Boutros Boutros-Ghali did something similar but I don’t know the details. I never knew that! |
#73
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Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 05/01/2021 15:00, Sam Wilson wrote: NY wrote: Why *do* Americans insist on using their middle initials/names on official documentation? Does "John H Smith" sound more impressive than "John Smith"? Apparently it does. Harry S Truman was given his middle initial in order to suggest a middle name that he didn’t actually have. Leading to this endless debate, which helps to keep Wikipedia editors and such like from wandering the streets: https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/educat...-s-truman-name :-) Sam -- The entity formerly known as Spit the dummy to reply |
#74
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"Sam Wilson" wrote in message
... NY wrote: In Icelandic, do *both* the sons and the daughters take the father's first name? I have vague memories of being told that daughter's sometimes take the mother's first name - so Magnus and Oddny (*) might have a son with a surname Magnusson and a daughter with a surname Oddnydottir (rather than Magnusdottir). Search for “iceland” he https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names Shame it doesn't say in what circumstances the daughter's surname is based on her mother's rather than father's first name. I wonder if there's a convention or just "whichever sounds better". |
#75
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"Recliner" wrote in message
... George Brown, the tired and emotional Labour politician, became Lord George-Brown on his elevation to the peerage because he still wanted to be called George Brown, even though peers are conventionally known only by their surnames. He had to change his name to George George-Brown to do it, though. Boutros Boutros-Ghali did something similar but I don’t know the details. I never knew that! I'd forgotten all about Boutros Boutros-Ghali. Sounds like a made-up name invented by The Fast Show ("Scorccio!") but he was always in the news in the 1990s as president of the UN. "Boutros Boutros-Ghali was born in Cairo, Egypt, on 14 November 1922 into a Coptic Christian family. His father Yusuf Butros Ghali was the son of Boutros Ghali Bey" (Wikipedia). Seems as if Boutros/Butros was a family name that was so important that his parents used it as a first name as well. |
#76
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On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 21:20:09 -0000, "NY" wrote:
"Tweed" wrote in message ... It's just a cultural thing, like many Europeans have names like Magnus Magnus*son*, and innumerable similar Slavic suffices. Slavic? I thought it came from the Icelandic. There surnames come from the first name of the parent. So Magnusson is the male offspring of a chap whose first name was Magnus something elseson. If he also had a female offspring her surname would be Magnusdottir. (Magnuss daughter) It made for an interesting telephone book.... It must make genealogy "interesting" because every generation of a family will have a different surname, as will brothers and sisters. In Icelandic, do *both* the sons and the daughters take the father's first name? I have vague memories of being told that daughter's sometimes take the mother's first name - so Magnus and Oddny (*) might have a son with a surname Magnusson and a daughter with a surname Oddnydottir (rather than Magnusdottir). Do Icelandic women generally take their husband's surname after marriage or do they normally / always keep their maiden surname? (*) The only Icelandic person I knew was a woman with this rather unusual (I hesitate to say Odd!) first name. You will also find patronymics in very old Welsh and Scottish records, usually where the names have been given in Welsh or Gaelic. |
#77
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NY wrote:
"Sam Wilson" wrote in message ... NY wrote: In Icelandic, do *both* the sons and the daughters take the father's first name? I have vague memories of being told that daughter's sometimes take the mother's first name - so Magnus and Oddny (*) might have a son with a surname Magnusson and a daughter with a surname Oddnydottir (rather than Magnusdottir). Search for “iceland” he https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names Shame it doesn't say in what circumstances the daughter's surname is based on her mother's rather than father's first name. I wonder if there's a convention or just "whichever sounds better". According to the all-knowing Wikipedia: The vast majority of Icelandic last names carry the name of the father, but occasionally the mother's name is used: e.g. if the child or mother wishes to end social ties with the father. Some women use it as a social statement while others simply choose it as a matter of style. In all of these cases, the convention is the same: Ólafur, the son of Brynd*s, will have the full name of Ólafur Brynd*sarson ("the son of Brynd*s"). Some well-known Icelanders with matronymic names are the football player Heiðar Helguson ("Helga's son"), the novelist Guðrún Eva M*nervudóttir ("Minerva's daughter"), and the medieval poet Eil*fr Goðrúnarson ("Goðrún's son"). In the Icelandic film Bjarnfreðarson the title character's name is the subject of some mockery for his having a woman's name – as Bjarnfreður's son – not his father's. In the film this is connected to the mother's radical feminism and shame over his paternity, which form part of the film's plot.[9] Some people have both a matronymic and a patronymic: for example, Dagur Bergþóruson Eggertsson ("the son of Bergþóra and Eggert"), the mayor of Reykjav*k since 2014. Another example is the girl Blær mentioned above: her full name is Blær Bjarkardóttir Rúnarsdóttir ("the daughter of Björk and Rúnar"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_name#Matronymic_naming_as_a_choice |
#78
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On 05/01/2021 11:36, NY wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... They presumably hope HM will perform the opening ceremony when "One's" line is formally opened under its official brand. I assume the Elizabeth Line name will be used once the central tunnel and new stations are opened, even if all the sections don't yet have through services. So that could happen this autumn. I wonder how many people will use the name "Elizabeth Line" in normal parlance, compared with those that call it "Crossrail [Line]". I bet it gets abbreviated to "Liz Line" ;-) It has aircon, unlike the tube, so I'm calling it "Unsweaty Betty". -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to 1988 - Death Is Eeklo |
#79
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On 05/01/2021 00:13, Recliner wrote:
The official version is up: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/standard-tube-map.pdf The trams fare zone makes a right mess of the zones in south London. It looks like zone 5 is inside zone 4 around Sutton. It was a while before I noticed the "London Trams fare zone" label on the right to explain the confusion. I can't remember where I saw it, but one version of the map used a different colour for the tram zone, which was much clearer. The London Rail and Tube[0] map does a less bad job by moving the Thameslink Mitcham Junction station to the other side of the tram line, but still suffers from the same problem of isolating small parts of fare zones at South Wimbledon, West Croydon and Elmers End. [0] https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/London%20Rail%20and%20Tube%20QR%20Map%20December%2 02020(m).pdf |
#80
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On 05/01/2021 22:28, Sam Wilson wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote: On 05/01/2021 15:00, Sam Wilson wrote: NY wrote: Why *do* Americans insist on using their middle initials/names on official documentation? Does "John H Smith" sound more impressive than "John Smith"? Apparently it does. Harry S Truman was given his middle initial in order to suggest a middle name that he didn’t actually have. Leading to this endless debate, which helps to keep Wikipedia editors and such like from wandering the streets: https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/educat...-s-truman-name :-) Sam Perhaps both are correct. The full name is Harry S Truman. Like all names, the middle one can be abbreviated to its initial plus a dot: Harry S. Truman. |
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